May Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Have a new thread for May... you all managed to fill the April one!

This is a place to chat about music lessons, exams, practice, aural, theory, performances and anything else you like. We have many regular and occasional posters (some of whom are learning themselves) with children ranging from complete beginners to very advanced. We do try our best to make sure everyone feels welcome!

I am mum to Goo (12) flute and piano, and Rara (9) cello and clarinet. They play in loads of school groups, South West Music School and NCO, although practice isn't going too well at the moment. Later in the week, all three of us are taking part in a big community concert, which will be lovely.

Eliphant - what Druid says
Hope the GCSEs are going well Druid and for everyone else with dcs taking exams currently

A lot of the guilt is tied up in the feeling that nothing is worth doing if you’ve not started at 3 years old. And when you see the opportunities available to those that do (on top of talent and with helpful parents) it is difficult to shake it off. I have very mixed feelings about my daughter’s school doubling the size of the junior class, this will surely restrict access in higher years for those with potential ‘discovered’ at eg county music service or motivated to start an instrument themselves though exposure at a later point. I really hope the plans for the Halle free school are progressing.

I’m going to go back and catch up on all the chat in a minute but thought I’d stop by and say hello. Little one has had a good weekend; she had a big ballet audition this week, which she absolutely loved. Six week wait now though, arghhh! Today she played twice in a JD concert. The first piece was a clarinet duet- they did the Floral Duet (she was primo) and they were beautiful. She was gorgeous, she’s gained some hidden maturity to her performing recently. And they only got the piece last week! Her second piece was a piano piece. She sat down at the piano and looked so poised & at home. The more I see the more I think I may agree with her first teacher that she could actually be a first study pianist. She was gorgeous today.

Trumpet made up for the quick sleep with a very long sleep in the garden this afternoon! House renovations - my thoughts are with you!

Eliphant I think it sounds like at this point she’s happy dipping in lots of options and doesn’t want to devote her life to anything - and that’s totally fine at that age!! Plenty of children are enthusiastic musicians and convinced they’ll be in it for the long haul and then at 15/16 lose interest - she definitely doesn’t have to commit now and I think what’s best is making sure she continues to enjoy herself and knows you fully support that. Follow her lead

eliphant, you've already got some great advice and answers to your questions so no much to add from me. I just sympathise your situation as I do also have a young violinist who expresses great interest in music yet I can see he has wider interests (so he is not living for music only at all) and I am not sure how serious I should take his words.

He wants to go to a music specialist school instead of the lovely comp he is supposed to go from September. I think he should see what the 'normal' school can offer at first. He goes to a tiny primary school, only 30 or less kids per year. The secondary he is going is enormous. He will meet lots of different people, and there will be lots interesting clubs to join and subjects to learn. I think it will open up his eyes and make him realise music is one lovely thing he enjoys (for life!) but it's not necessarily his main thing nor future career - obviously he is not thinking deep enough to see it as a career choice yet, but it will be if he goes to a music specialist school. So I kind of ignoring his plea for now.

I am very confident with my view so no intention to give in but then now and again I have wobbly moments and would question myself if I am doing right things. Someone would say you don't need to specialise so early, yet another would say it's crucial to start early for violinists/classical musicians (DS is relatively a late starter for violinist standard, apparently!). The desire is coming from DS, yet if I support his desire to take it 100% serious at this stage I will feel I've steered him towards music unnecessarily, as he is still so young and he will be influenced by our decision. I am trying to play as low key as possible about his passion in music but I can easily make it a big thing by joining him and we aim at it hand in hand. I am resisting it.

But I am not sure if I am pushing my view and belief against DS's face. He may resent me in future. So, I understand your dilemma, and the feel of guilty and wobbles...

I am sorry if I am only adding more wobbles unnecessarily, but I just wanted to say I was this kind of child who wouldn't express or show my strong desire to my parents.

I'm from a complex family and I was very aware of that and also it was probably partly my personality and immaturity, I was totally lacking the ability to convey my desire or how to make a 'request' to the parents. I am on very good terms with my parents especially my mother now and the other day we were chatting and I casually told her what I was so longing to try when I was a child and she was shocked and asked me why I didn't say a thing. I didn't know how to say or if it was okay to say! They never really asked me!

My point is..., I hear 'follow your kid's lead' or 'wait till they express their desire' but not all kids can be open and upfront to their parents. Some are hesitating for some reasons. So I wouldn't just wait till they start sending us a cue but have a proper chat time to time to make sure they have a moment to express their hidden passion or desire. I am sure you all do that, but just to emphasise the needs...

I think it’s great that you have stepped up and made the decision for your ds kutik, especially as it probably makes life harder work for you?

My dd says she feels too young to make the decision herself so has asked us to do so, so at the moment we hope to continue at music school. Thos would be easiest for mid teen years for us I admit. But I do think there may be that classic experience for her of not knowing what she wants until she has the acceptance or rejection...ie. a feeling of elation or fear with the first, or disappointment/ relief with the second. I am interested to know. Gut instinct is a powerful thing!

Kutik I was definitely advocating talking to DC - DD only does 20+ hours of dance a week because when she was 9 we sat her down for a conversation and said she could either take one hobby seriously or continue semi-seriously with her existing four main interests. She chose to throw everything into dance from there! and she wanted to copy her brother I think it’s all about maintaining that communication. For us DD1 is probably just going to keep a series of sports she’s good at and enjoys, rather than focusing on (and therefore potentially excelling) at one, while DD2 is just dance crazy.

DD2 has however recently announced that for further education she’s thinking she’d either like to do dance (not a surprise) foreign languages (not a surprise) art (not a surprise) or maths/physics (a huge surprise ). Luckily she’s only 12 so need to narrow down just yet!!!

It sounds like you’re getting the balance right for your DS right now!

On another note - DD3 (5) has decided that she’d like to play the “mini guitar” so DD2 taught her three ukulele chords yesterday. I imagine the enthusiasm will last all of 2 days...

Although I am more a reader that an active participant of this thread now (but keep rooting for all the goals and aspirations of our young musicians), I couldn't just pass by your post eliphant. You have already such good advice here from parents, and i just wanted to say you sound like you are doing the absolute best you can by your DD you are referring to.

Your DD (you are referring to) is nearly 12, so Y7?, and is clearly still loving many of the things she does at a pace that she can control and already has a strong instinct of where her threshold is that, if pushed, could have a negative impact on these activities. 30 mins lesson time is absolutely ok, if progress on that instrument is evident, from both an enjoyment and development perspective, and it's already unconsciously running over to a little more. I won't comment on what the 2nd instrument should be, but she'll take to it far more intuitively if her opinion is given due consideration. And she's clearly very talented at the piano to be able to play ear, and may choose later to invest more time in it is she does go down the music route.

She sounds very mature, and whilst we all know what it feels like to have pressure applied by how well others are doing around our DC, maintaining focus without comparisons to others is key to letting her develop at her own pace. Without overly referencing my own anecdotal experience with my DD, I have had to come to terms with balancing a pecking order (that I may not wholly agree with), but also recognise that having a talent for something does not to equate to 100% passion to dedicate all to it at the age that they are at. So much harder also when DC are split between many 'passions', that sometimes it is ok to keep them going simultaneously, even if the speed of success may be compromised (in our eyes), as they do catch up when the motivation and I'm actually good at this paths meet.

I went to a school jazz event last weekend. I so amazed to see so many super talented DC from the school that I had never really seen before. This was because I tend to only get exposed to the usual suspects, that include the school's music scholars. BUT, it was so clear that there were so many more that manage to hold a successful music career through school outside of the 'core', that have many other activities that they are not prepared to shut the door on yet...

We listen to the thoughts of people who have a clue and ignore the rest. Just because people want to share their thoughts doesn't mean that you have to pay any attention.

Some close family members have never seen DS as a soloist, they see him playing carols in a band at Christmas and that's all. They don't get any information about what he's doing because whatever news we have they would find a way to sour it. Some of them have no difficulty about sharing their opinions at great length even when it's a subject that they know nothing about. It is just easier to stick to safe subjects such the weather and where they are going on holiday.

I totally sympathise 2nd. My DM isn't very supportive of DD's musical endeavours and I find that hard at times. She won't come out and say it, but I know she thinks I shouldn't push them so hard and almost takes it as a personal criticism that we do the things we do for them - it's as if she thinks I am critical of the fact that she didn't do these things for me. Which is total rubbish as my parents were in a very different position in every way to DH and I, plus I was the 'first' musical child in the family, so everybody was learning along the way! She frequently passes comments like 'well you did ok on 30min lessons in school, why does she need to be driven X miles for an hour lesson' or 'a £XX violin was good enough for you to do Grade 8 on, why does she need such an expensive instrument'. She gets narky when I say we can't do x,y or z because of a musical commitment. Yet is quick to be uber 'proud' on facebook when I have posted a video of DD's performing...

It's like she thinks I am denying them a normal childhood. Admittedly, I can go a bit 'Dance Mom' at times (to quote an earlier comment on the thread) but I am quite self-aware and do try to keep this in check. And DH is Ying to my Yang so we are all good! The girls have lots of other interests (brownies & guides, theatre school, play dates etc) and I try hard to make sure it is not all music. But my parents live so far away they don't always see this...

Fortunately, DH's parents are extremely supportive and proud, they come to all the girls' performances and are super helpful with logistics when things get tricky.

We can only do what we think is best for them and sometimes just need to park the critics (or at least keep them at arms length).

As for the technical criticisms, that must be really difficult to handle. No advice there, although you have inadvertently given me a lot to think about with regards to my own DD's.

2nd, I think some straight talking from you would be in order. Tell them that you don't want to risk their lovely relationship with your DD. That she has you and her teachers to steer her choices. That she won't want to play to them any more if they're so critical. Frankly I'd laugh at my parents or anyone else if they tried to criticise a piece DC had only just picked up. "Give the poor child a chance, she's practically sight reading." I know easier to say than do when it's your own family.

I had one parent who was unremittingly positive about anything I did, and another who found fault. Once I realised this I pretty much discounted the opinion of both and learned to trust my own. So helping your DD to notice that they always criticise could help too.
(I also at one point had a teacher who was unremittingly positive and that was very unsettling. I couldn't tell if I was really doing well with a piece or if they were just being nice.)

We are lucky that dd has 4 proud grandparents especially as ex dp remembers criticism from his father on his own musical endeavours. However dd has a friend at school who is overly competitive regarding musical progress. Dd has on several occasions found her violin case locked before a performance and friend will just do happen to kindly produce the key in the nick of time. This morning I was approached by friend who abruptly confronted me with "I'm working on grade x, your dd tells me she is too, is that correct?". Does anyone have a child with such a competitive group? How do you handle it?

God, that would have me raging se22mother. Can she not keep her case with her at all times? Or is that not practical?

to 2nd and se22.

DS doesn't have any friend who is super competitive in regard to music achievement. Mainly because no one really care about grade and music at DS's non-musical school.

However, I do see kids making comments of 'I am better than you' or 'my gadget is cooler than you' kind of stuff and I think it's very similar to a toddler holding a biggest ice lolly proudly licking in the playground. Kids are competitive and wants to feel better. Hopefully this kind of obvious competitiveness will fade away as they get older.

My advice would be, don't even try to 'handle' it. Let them feel competitive because there is nothing you can do to change how they see the world. But you can change yours. Maybe you can tell your DD to take it as a passive compliment! DS got something similar for football and he was very flattered...

As to the locking the case, that's not acceptable... Can her teacher do something about it??

2nsSopranos I think the issue is that you are making choices which differ from those your MIL made. It isn’t actually about the music - if you were ferrying your children to loads of ice hockey games and practises, she would be exactly the same way.

If she spoils performances, I wouldn’t tell her about them (at least in part because she also spoils them for others).

Re your mother, I think there you may have to just say “She is doing fine / she enjoys playing lots of instruments” in a completely neutral way. Say it over and over again, so it becomes really boring.

for se, 2nd and folk.

The pushy mum comments sting, don’t they... I bet that almost everyone on this thread has had such comments at some point. but music at these levels requires commitment and hard work from parents as well as DCs. Any of us can lose the balance and go a bit dancemom occasionally, but that doesn’t make us bad parents. All of the DCs on this thread seem very happy and balanced! And like folk, I am lucky enough to have a calm DH, who is not afraid to have a ‘quiet word’ from time to time if I appear to be losing the plot!

se - locking a music case before a performance, with the aim of upsetting your DD, is bullying - especially in the context of repeated low level comments. I feel quite outraged on your DD’s behalf! If this happens in school, I’d report it and let them deal with it through their anti bullying policy.

Well as it happens she has a concert after school on Thursday. If it happens again I will go to the teacher.

2ndsopranos so sorry your DDs grandparents can’t be proud of their commitment and achievement

I have a SIL who kicks off when PILs go to see DD’s shows... she was in a West End production for 11 months and PILs went twice and both times had to apologise to SIL and give her money the equivalent they spent on the tickets. SIL’s main refrain was “she’s not even a big part”... she was a small part but was on stage for about half the show in ensemble dances/songs and had a few solo lines. Hardly a walk on role, especially for such a big show. They weren’t even allowed to come and see her when she was in a UK Tour I try to keep calm by remember it’s her issue - not mine, and she is the one missing out on feelings of pride and a good show. In your case your MILs and mother are definitely going to find themselves missing out on lots of their grandchildren’s lives if they’re not careful.

And I’ve been lucky to avoid the pushy mum comments but to all those who haven’t, I’m sure they really stink.

And se22 definitely mention the case locking. That’s more than just being competitive - it’s downright mean! I’ve got my goddaughter round today because she’s on study leave now revising for A levels and we were actually talking about competitive people - she’s at a very prestigious, difficult to get into girls’ school and she observed that the most competitive were the insecure ones. She has one girl who is obsessed with “beating” her because they are considered the two best in the year at a certain subject. Luckily my Goddaughter just laughs about it, but she does feel sorry for the girl because it really seems to consume her and is definitely a symptom of her own insecurity. There will be people like that in all walks of life I think. Hope it gets resolved soon for your DD’s sake - the case locking really isn’t on.

SE the case locking is awful your poor dd definitely talk to the teacher if it happens again .
I don't really have any advice for those of you with tricky comments from parents and PIL . But I think that you are all doing a great job and it's tricky supporting children who in many of our cases are quite driven . It's hard to get the balance right . I have people asking me whether Ds is really having a childhood ( not family - I think they know better ) I just point out that it's his choice to do all this stuff and that if I didn't offer to support him/ drive him around I wouldn't be doing the best by him . It's not really how i imagined things would be but it never is . And he still fits in lots of time on his phone and laptop playing fortnite !!
it looks like I will have to find Dd a private cornet teacher from next year as I think her school won't be able to offer her lessons anymore. Music currently has such a low profile in her school everyone just messes about in the instrument lessons and then doesn't carry on . The new head is trying to sort this but these things take time- at least she only has one more year there . Maybe Ds could teach her ?!?

Oh yes, we have jealous SIL/BIL issues too. We don't even bother talking about the girls' stuff to them as they just close down the conversation. So sad. I'd like to think we'd be happy and supportive if the boot was on the other foot... it's only one set though, their other aunts and uncles are very proud. Like you say, always the insecure ones....

Sorry to hear about cornet teacher Trumpet. But it sounds like you have a perfect in-house solution!!! Would DD take instruction from DS??? Wouldn't work in our house 😂😂😂

Oh and I agree, case locking is completely out of order and borderline psychotic.