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Extra-curricular activities

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May Music Thread

751 replies

Wafflenose · 01/05/2018 09:07

Have a new thread for May... you all managed to fill the April one!

This is a place to chat about music lessons, exams, practice, aural, theory, performances and anything else you like. We have many regular and occasional posters (some of whom are learning themselves) with children ranging from complete beginners to very advanced. We do try our best to make sure everyone feels welcome!

I am mum to Goo (12) flute and piano, and Rara (9) cello and clarinet. They play in loads of school groups, South West Music School and NCO, although practice isn't going too well at the moment. Later in the week, all three of us are taking part in a big community concert, which will be lovely.

OP posts:
Japanese · 19/05/2018 15:44

Oh no kutik!

Do you mean the violin you have just chosen after your long search? Shock Sad

Kutik73 · 19/05/2018 15:47

Yes. The violin DS loves. I should talk about this on the other thread I guess as I can write an essay...

se22mother · 19/05/2018 16:11

Oh no kutik Shock

Japanese · 19/05/2018 16:12

Sorry kutik Sad

druidsong · 19/05/2018 17:14

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Withdrawn at poster's request

TaggieOHara · 19/05/2018 17:56

kutik oh no! I’m so sorry to hear this. We’re here for you if/when you are ready to share what happened.

se Star

AlexandraLeaving · 19/05/2018 18:47

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Wafflenose · 19/05/2018 19:57

Yep, Aulos yellow bag one. Top A does need most of the thumb hole covered too.

Well done mini se22!

Sorry to hear about the violin!

Shows went well thanks. Rara and I were there for 10 hours: orchestral rehearsal, full dress rehearsal and two shows. There was a break during the afternoon and Rara went for a walk to a local park with her BFF and her friend's recorder teacher. It was lovely of her to invite Rara along. I offered to come, but she said I should have a rest. So I found a quiet spot, read a book and had a lie down. Just what I needed at the time. When they got back, we had a takeaway from the chippy on the corner, then did the second show. Rara is now braining herself on her laptop!

OP posts:
LooseAtTheSeams · 19/05/2018 20:01

Kutik oh no. I don't know what's happened but I'm hoping someone on here will know what to do.
Se22 StarStar

AlexandraLeaving · 19/05/2018 20:42

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Trumpetboysmum · 19/05/2018 23:27

Waffle glad it went well
Kutik oh no hope you sort it I want to know more - not that I would be to help but I wish I could
se 22 great news Smile

MomOfTwoGirls2 · 20/05/2018 00:58

DD1 seems to have improved so much this year. She started on Fiocco and Rameau Gavotte from Suzuki book 6 two and a half weeks ago, both are sounding reasonably good already.

DD2 getting no time to practice due to dance commitments. She is even missing her weekly violin lesson some weeks.

She had a fabulous weekend, dancing in professional production in local opera house. Dh, myself & DD1 attended show tonight and thought she did fab and loved the show.
Kutik. I’m devastated for you. I followed your other thread. What happened???

eliphant · 20/05/2018 04:00

Hi all, this is a long one... Mainly it is about what is a good second instrument to take when violin is the main, and would cello not be suitable? And also, I am now having some second thoughts about this whole music thing with my daughter...

DD is turning 12 in Sept this year. She is now learning her Gr6 violin pieces. She started learning 4 years ago. Due to finances we cannot afford to have her learn a 2nd instrument. Due to finances also we chose not to have her do exams for each grade. She sat her G3 practical 2 yrs ago and got a distinction. She played Abrsm G4 songs at music festivals last year and got distinctions for them. She played Abrsm G5 songs at this years festival and again distinction. Then last month her teacher said she is ready to do G6 songs... Her previous teacher mentioned 2 years ago she could try for conservatoire when she’s old, but I’ve been speaking to other teachers who also say conservatoires these days are really tough to enter, so I’m not banking on it and neither is she though she seems keen. I think she’s good but don’t think she’s genius, iyswim. Or maybe that’s a way to console myself indirectly so I don’t feel too bad about not being able to give her what she needs to get the best musical education.. I looked at NCO but was put off by the price of the fees. No way we could afford it even if we had half of it subsidised. We don’t qualify for any benefits though and rent and don’t own assets. Trying to save for a house really. Been trying for the past 3years. We also have 2 other DCs whom we try and contribute towards their extracurricular activities so they don’t feel left out. I think maybe, just maybe, my daughter might have a chance at conservatoire. She’s not particularly academic, but she really loves the practical playing side. I heard they expect applicants to play 2 instruments. We do have a piano which my eldest plays. My daughter could play her Grade 2 songs by ear without any piano training, but when I ask her if she’d like to play piano as the 2nd instrument, she refuses and says she doesn’t really like it. She asked to learn cello instead. I’m not sure cello can be suitable for a 2nd instrument since she already has violin as her main. They’re both string instruments. And also I dread the idea of cost of buying the cello and the lessons. For piano we have a great experienced friend/teacher who teaches for a low price and she has been kindly teaching my eldest piano practical and teaching both daughters Theory G5 for the exams, at a very very low price. I couldn’t ask for more... just wish my daughter wasn’t so fussy, and yes she is in general a fussy kid. Fussy about food, fussy about clothes, fabrics, sounds... people... she refused to join the local children’s orchestra (which is cheap to join unlike the NCO) after a brief stint there, as she said many of the other kids play badly and it was torture for her to listen to it. I wish, so wish she wasn’t so difficult.

Would like to hear some words of advice or wisdom. Should I just throw in the towel with her and forget about trying to give her too much of what I’ve got? Say, let her continue with her once weekly 30 min violin lessons for the indefinite future - her violin teacher is also really a great friend/teacher who teaches for a really low price. Anyway I asked my daughter before if she’d rather have 1 hour lessons like her friends do, and anyway her violin teacher often overshoots the 30 mins and goes for 40 mins, but my daughter still says no, “1 hour is too long”. I really do wonder at times how serious (or not) she is at this. If not for the fact her violin teacher and my eldest daughter’s piano teacher have been really generous with time and money for these kids of mine, I really would think twice about supporting my kids through music education as it’s so expensive and yet from what I’ve seen, musicians don’t often get paid well. I myself was trained classically in piano (my parents were far more well off than me and my husband are) and although I love music myself, I would think twice about steering my kids towards that unless their passion for it overrules everything.

As of now, my daughter (the violin playing one) is apparently also passionate about all animals (joined the local free zoology club mailing list and coos and caws over ALL animals and MOST insects and says she wouldn’t even mind being a dog walker in future 😂 ) and once weekly ballet lessons (thankfully they are cheap too and no, she refused to do twice weekly ballet lessons as she said she “won’t have time for anything else she likes”)... as well as the violin and a million other things.

I am getting feedback from family and some mum friends who say I should stop her other stuff and get her to focus on the music aspect as that’s where the “money” would be at for her. So hard to know what to do as she isn’t some child you can force into anything. She is quite headstrong with me (but is shy, quiet and gentle with everyone else). I see the real her at home. I could fend off or avoid the people I don’t agree with but this music thing is eating at me. What if it’s my fault if she didn’t get a good music education?

So... what would you recommend I do? Just keep going as at present? And how about the 2nd instrument bit? Don’t force it to be piano? But then say no to cello also? I guess I would secretly like someone to say yes... because then I won’t be stressed out about the financial side of things if I don’t go ahead with this. Part of me believes in her having a free childhood to explore whatever is her interest, to the extent that she prefers. Ugh but in the music world, especially classical, it seems very competitive. I keep feeling like I’m not doing enough. My mum friends ask me would my daughter like to join their kids in these extra saturday classes run by Guildhall or these orchestra workshops that cost £70 for 5 days and I keep having to turn them down citing lack of money or time. I feel like I’m not able to do enough, and not sure if whatever I’m doing for my kids is enough. Now her violin teacher is telling me it would be good for her to play in orchestras for the experience. I am already stressing about when her teacher asks me to buy her a full size violin and spending the most money I could. I was shocked my friends were all paying £500 to £1000 for their kids first full size violin. And yet here my daughter is just playing a 2nd hand Stentor student violin that cost us £80 😩 My husband says buy it on credit card and slowly pay it off... last thing I want is debt..

TabbyTigger · 20/05/2018 07:58

Hi eliphant!

Firstly, my DDs also don’t take every grade - on first instrument DD1(14) did grades 1, 3, and is doing 5 soon, and on second instrument she has just done grades 2 and 4 so far. On DD2(12)’s first instrument she did 1, 3, 5, and is now doing 7. On her other two she’s done 1, 3, and might do 5, and done 3 and 6 so far on the other. I think most kids at their school do exams in this way - they usually do just one a year. I wouldn’t worry at all about that aspect! I also wouldn’t worry about the costs of instruments or length of lessons - mine all have the cheapest models and 30 minute lessons Grin (they’re not particularly serious about music so there’s only so much I’ll spend!! They get first instrument lessons free/subsidised though so that does help out.)

Secondly, I think here the key thing is to talk to your DD. At 11 I think she is perfectly capable of knowing whether or not she intends on taking music seriously in the future, and from that I think you need to establish how much money/time/effort to channel into it. My younger DD is a very serious dancer so at about 9 we sat her down and said that she had to either continue to split her time between trampolining/swimming/gymnastics/dance or cut down on three to make space for taking one seriously. She chose to stop gymnastics and swimming, cut down on trampolining, and up the dance. Now she just does music stuff in school, goes to trampolining once a week and plays on the school netball team so she can channel the rest of her time into dance. I think you need to let her take more responsibility for/control over her own future. It’ll alleviate the pressure for you!

What are your plans for secondary school? I assume from her age she’s starting in September.

Trumpetboysmum · 20/05/2018 08:19

Hi Eliphant not sure that I will be much help but these are my thoughts ..
It sounds like she's doing really well and it really is fine for her to carry on doing what she's doing now , though if she does want to pursue music when she's older then piano would be a good second instrument . Going to junior conservatoire is just one thing that you can do if you are good but she really doesn't have to go now lots go when they are older because it's a massive commitment in time as well as money . I think it is very hard to get in on violin but I'm not sure of the actual levels . Lots of ds's trumpet friends in NCO go to one or are joining in September and none of them have Grade 8 yet - they are 13 in year 8 but are now playing at that standard . Don't let the cost put you off as the jds fall under the music and dance scheme which nco doesn't so you can get help with the fees .
I really don't know a thing about buying violins but I do know that at the jds etc most do have expensive instruments which ds's trumpet teacher thought was mad !! They grow, change their minds etc Though he then did find him a good second hand one . Through your Music service or school you should be able to buy an instrument vat free if you wanted to upgrade - we did that with an earlier trumpet and saved lots of money .
I think it's good to have lots of interests at her age be guided by her if she really wants to pursue music she'll let you know I'm sure . it's really really hard work and I think however good they are the desire to pursue it has to come from them . I know dd will probably never be a musician because I have to nag her to practise - but she's happy doing what she does. Ds is obsessed and only thinks about music but it's hard and I'm never really sure if I'm giving him the right advice or not !!

AlexandraLeaving · 20/05/2018 08:39

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Icouldbeknitting · 20/05/2018 08:45

Eliphant It's not compulsory to do every grade, we favoured the odd numbers. I am boggling at the thought that your family think that music is where the money is because I really don't think that is the case. I do agree that she'd benefit by playing in an orchestra or other group, if the first one doesn't work out then there will be others out there. If your local education authority runs a Saturday morning music centre then there will be a group of the right level for her there. Ours is £40 a term and you get free instrument hire in that.

My lad is 18 now, I think you have to let them choose their own path rather than trying to steer them down the "best" one.

folkmamma · 20/05/2018 08:54

Eliphant - what a lot you are working through. I have a violinist and a cellist and will gladly offer up a few thoughts...

There are a few organisations that might be able to help in respect of the financial aspects. helpmusicians.co.uk is a helpful resource. Also, your local county music service should have a list of local trusts that offer small grants for one-off 'experiences' such as orchestra courses etc.

Benslow Instrument Load Scheme is a good way to get access to a high quality instrument befitting of her standard.

Pro Corda are a wonderful organisation and we have this year joined their Ensemble Training programme - DD1 is going on her second course in a few weeks and absolutely loves it. Her first course was a huge turning point in terms of motivation and attitude, and helped her realise that she really wants to do this whole music thing. They offer bursaries of up to 100%. It's a very good standard and so the string orchestra should not offend DD's ears Grin

As for Junior Conservatoire, we are going through this at the moment. Some of them are more competitive than others and so are harder to get into. You can arrange consultations and they will be very honest about whether or not DD is around the right level and what she would need to improve etc to be in with a chance of getting in. Again, they all have bursary systems with the aim of making sure everyone that is offered a place can take it up. Go and look around as DD's reaction to the environment will tell you a lot about whether you should go for it. For my DD, her eyes (and ears) were out on stalks and she looked like she was walking around Hogwarts! We have auditions for 2 different colleges next week - I am a prolific poster and so everyone will know how they go but am happy to talk with you outside of this thread if we can help?

Re: second instrument, I appreciate your DD cannot be steered (trust me, I have one of those!) but how about viola? It is a very much in demand instrument. My DD has just picked it up alongside violin (her decision after she tried one at Pro Corda) and could actually help her secure a place at a Junior Department if that's what you decide to do. Her current teacher may even be able to teach her viola too?? Noo (DD1) loves her viola, she loves the deep resonance, and enjoys sitting in the midst of the harmonies in ensembles. She also likes that she is suddenly in great demand!!!!

Personally, I would say not cello. Techniques are similar in some ways but very different in others and it might mess with her left hand particularly. Besides, they cost a fortune! If she's not keen on Viola, a woodwind instrument might be a good call? But I don't think JD's necessarily 'expect' a second instrument anyway, you just need to be good enough on the one you audition on.....

As for DD's strong will, I truly understand and sympathise. Ultimately she will have to decide what she wants from all this but 11/12 is still quite young and it sounds like she is doing well so far. If she is anything like my DD2, she may well wake up one day and decide that she's going to throw herself in to making music her life and there will be no stopping her! On the other hand, she may wake up and decide she's never touching an instrument again. But you will have given her every chance, whatever she decides.

SwayingInTime · 20/05/2018 08:56

Eliphant, your situation sounds so similar to ours. We don’t save for a house or make pension contributions for my husband or run a car or go on holidays other than visiting family or decorate...the list is endless! But dd1 has 90mins music tuition a week, is a chorister and because of the guilt her sisters do musical theatre, dancing etc. Very reasonable prices but it all adds up. Re the specialist school, we were sucked in by promises of free flowing funding for low income families but unless you are super talented, no extra was forthcoming. Then the requests for extra lessons started! Tbh I think your daughter’s attitude sounds great, a county level orchestra must be around somewhere and the social side of music making is the best bit. Cello would be a daft second instrument in my humble opinion, strings alone are expensive and it’s a massive extra time commitment in terms of practice. There’s something much more calming and spontaneous about piano practice I think. Our situation is that our 12 year old is grade sixish on cello but is a chorister at specialist music school so we are at a similar decision point re going for it with the music as she has to audition to stay on as an instrumentalist after year 8. I have decided to take a step back, if she wants it enough she will put the work it. But if she leaves, she leaves and I think she will think exactly the same as your daughter - that in top of high school, you can only do so much!

Pro corda residentials offer very generous bursaries and take a overview of assets and expenses when allocating funds. We sent dd on one a few years back and it aided our decision making as she was so enthused by the experience. Your daughter sounds fabulously musical to progress so quickly on 30 minutes a week and no ensembles.

The other complicating factor for is my husband’s thwarted musical ambitions which I have to keep in check ... he has the potential to go full dance mom at any moment!

SwayingInTime · 20/05/2018 09:01

Viola is a great idea, perhaps would bring a chance at a much better orchestra in a year or so?

folkmamma · 20/05/2018 09:01

Swaying "The other complicating factor for is my husband’s thwarted musical ambitions which I have to keep in check ... he has the potential to go full dance mom at any moment!". You just described ME, lololololol!!! Grin

Trumpetboysmum · 20/05/2018 09:22

Swaying and folk at times that could be me too Grin mainly because I'm worried that if I might miss a trick for Ds and will then regret it !!!
I'd forgotten about pro corda Ds hasn't been but I've only heard good things about it

eliphant · 20/05/2018 12:09

Thanks for the responses, they really gave me a lot to think about. Yes recorder and voice were choices offered to her before. Someone I know was willing to teach recorder for a very low price as she organises a small local children recorder ensemble and is very enthusiastic about it. We have even watched a few of their performances together but DD was nonplussed. Vocal lessons well, she definitely said no to that. I think her shyness plays a part in that decision so singing in front of an audience is a bit of a nightmare. I take the points about cello and actually I am relieved it wouldn’t be a really optimal choice. It has put my mind at ease also to hear that piano would be fine for her to take up when she’s older, as a 2nd instrument, if she wants it then. She’s really difficult to please. There is only one children’s orchestra locally near enough for us (45 mins away by bus) and a county orchestra 1.5 hrs away by bus. I don’t drive and that does make things so much more difficult to get to. I’m not really willing to put in the time and money if she doesn’t show the enthusiasm. Sigh. However she is also the sort of person who tends to tone down her enthusiasm at all times and tries to act cool and unconcerned no matter what happens, so I think it is very unlikely she will show any overt enthusiasm any time soon. If she wants something from me, she might ask, but she will ask and be like “don’t bother if you can’t afford it or don’t want to do it”. In a way I feel she is protecting herself from any pressure or expectations from teachers and parents, and in a way I think she is also trying to be considerate of the family’s difficult financial position, so I can’t blame her for being like this. She is also mildly oppositional in personality and slightly rebellious so I don’t want to push it as it would just be counterproductive.

I think I have now come to terms with the fact that this is just the way she is. It’s probably best just to sit back and wait for more signs from her that indicate putting more money and effort into music endeavours would be worth it. She could be quite good at many things she dabbled in over the years, but she always seems to fall short of the required enthusiasm. It’s almost like something holds her back. She currently does taekwondo too (black belt grading in a few months), the taekwondo coaches identified her as a potential to become a coach, however when they asked her to train as one, she turned it down saying “she doesn’t have time for the extra practice” although she says to me she will never quit the sport as she loves it and the belts keep her motivated to keep achieving higher. Her swimming was very good too but she quitted it after she got to the highest stage, because she said she has decided she actually hates “organised” swimming and prefers to swim “only for fun”. Her ballet was only rekindled last year after a break of over 4 years... she was the best dancer in class back then but suddenly started to say she hated it and so quitted it. Since she wanted to rejoin ballet last year after watching the Nutcracker at the Coliseum and falling in love with it all over, her teacher booked her in to do standard 3 Cechetti ballet exam in Feb this year and she passed with merit (2 marks under distinction). But... she refuses to do twice weekly ballet because she says she has “no time” and doesn’t want to give up other stuff.” She is interested and quite good in many things, baking, cooking, sewing, art, but when the opportunity arises for lessons or something, she might refuse... she prefers doing things on her whim and researching them on her own in her own time.

Many of her friends from the music side are mostly being steered towards various things by their parents - many of them do 2 instruments, go for singing lessons, etc, even if the kids themselves aren’t really into all of that. I have already had to keep some of their mums at a bit of an armlength (more like elbow length perhaps! I don’t want to appear too distant!) because I know we just don’t believe in the same things for our children or have the same deep pockets, but I know that if she were to continue down the path of music, these friends would be invaluable contacts for her, but as long as that continues, then I would be forever bombarded with all these things I feel I’m obliged to do if I genuinely care for my child’s possible musical future, but I will soldier on and try to do what’s best, which is to continue to place the ultimate decision-making on my daughter, even though I continually get challenged by other music mums about whether it is best to let a child decide things when it comes to classical music, that can affect her future in possibly profound ways.

Trumpetboysmum · 20/05/2018 15:04

Eliphant I think you are doing the best thing you know your daughter best . I constantly question what I'm doing with ds but his teacher is adamant that jd/ specialist school can wait . In fact a promising young trombonist who he knows didn't go to jd till 6 th form but is now at music college and doing really well . There's more than one path to take and I think they have to be really certain in my mind to commit so young. I worry about Ds not having a wide variety of interests because he has no time . It definitely couldn't be driven by me my 2 will only ever do things that they not I want !! And I think that's how it should be Smile

druidsong · 20/05/2018 16:06

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