June Music Thread

[Fleurdelise]

Hello all and welcome to the June thread! Waffle did me the honours of asking me to initiate this thread as she has no access to Internet while on holiday.

This thread was first initiated by Waffle when Goo was 6 and now she's 11. It is a thread for all the musicians, big and small, to share their love (and frustrations ) during the long path of learning an instrument. I first joined when dd was 7 and in the process of preparing for grade 1 piano for moral support. If you read the ending of the May thread you'll realise I am still a nervous reck here we are now, two years later, Dd is 9 and preparing for grade 5 piano and grade 3 clarinet, the exams are in exactly 13 days. I also have DS 15 who is in the middle of his GCSEs at the moment, he has no musical interest.

As I couldn't leave Waffle without an introduction, below is a quote from the May thread. The only correction is that I believe Rara has now turned 9.

I have two daughters. Goo is 11 and in her last term at primary school. She's working towards her Grade 8 Flute (some time next year) and playing from the Grade 4 Piano book (currently refusing to take any exams, and putting off the first proper performance!). Rara is 8, may or may not be doing Grade 3 Cello this term, and is approaching Grade 2 Clarinet.

Both of them played the recorder for years, starting as preschoolers. They reached Grades 7 and 3 respectively, but sadly neither has really played since the music festival a few months ago. They are obsessed with their Flute and Clarinet, and really enjoy Piano and Cello. There won't be many opportunities to play the recorder at the secondary school they will attend, so much as I love it, it's probably a good time to quietly drop it. Recorder has given them both lots of opportunities, confidence, reading skills... and festival prizes!

Yay! Minifleur what a triumph! I actually do think it's merit for piano based on the video clips and our collective view that she was fine on her scales!
I think it would be interesting to do grade 6 with Trinity to have experience of a different board as well - and avoid a rush to do the theory exam, although it's worth doing anyway at some point.
Waffle well done to you and your pupils!
DS2 had a piano lesson today in which he totally ploughed his scales so a bit stressy! His teacher commented his playing is above grade 4 level but at the moment the scales aren't there. The problem is that he doesn't slow down and fix the glitches but we're going to have to unpick the scales and really focus on fingering. Also that he won't accept that I'm advising him based on my own experience and not because I like to nag him!

Fleur Congulations, I am sure we are all relieved to know the outcome Ram home the learning experience with this one while it is still fresh in everyone's memory because there will be a next time, if not music exams then something else.

Irvine my dc do play with the cd and backing track when they are practising for exams. They do only do this once they have fully mastered the notes though. We do also find the cd helps to iron out any rhythmic issues. By the time they take the exams, they do sound very much like the cd and usually get marks of 29/30.

Sos, thank you.
Yes, I think my ds has mastered the notes, but no way near perfect(still struggles with jumps), or fast enough yet.
If he try to play with metronome(which teacher suggests), he can make mistakes. With CD, he just get really frustrated that he can't keep up. It just sound like he is pressing the right keys with no emotion.

We didn't use metronome or cd on grade1 until he was very fluent and totally confident. Then watched some you tube and used metronome to measure his tempo, and that worked well. He corrected some mistakes and learned about dynamics.

Trying to play with CD when he isn't confident enough destroyed his confidence, imo. It's difficult, I have no music background, and trust teacher, but I see him everyday struggling, and question if he was doing the right thing by following teacher's suggestion.
I think his sight reading is excellent(he has bit of asd traits and maths/logic is his strength), but physical skill is different matter.
Teacher suggested not to play like robot, but this is making him play more like a robot, imo.

I just watched the videos, beautiful children playing so well.
MiniFleur so talented, lovely sound on the piano and clarinet. Well done on her exams. I find exams do not always get out the best in the kids. Little sweet minimusic plays the same Minuet on clarinet as my baby DS on violin. I also watched a handsome young man on the piano-excellent sound (even with creaky pedal).
miniGreen very good to listen to on the piano.
miniealing on the violin was/is a Suzuki child, right? Beautiful tone.
I'll have more time tonight to listen again to the video-thank you for sharing them. I'll upload some after this mad weekend!

We have two concerts (plus two tennis tournaments) this weekend! DS2 and DS3 (babyDS) have their end of term concerts on cello and violin. DS1 and DS2 tennis tournaments Sun morning-then i'll need vino.

I wanted to ask if you all have some advice how to combine lots of music with sport at county level at ages 9 and 13? I'm struggling...My DS1 (country brass band, G8 horn; G8 guitar (to be taken in Nov) and G6 piano-wants to stop it now :( ) also plays county level tennis between 15-20h per week. DS2 (piano G4, horn G4 (to be sat next week, cello Suzuki about G6; just sat his G5 theory)), also plays at regional level 15-20h tennis. Thankfully both just gave up willingly footy- it was a relief handing back the kit to the coach. DS3 (only violin Suzuki, book 1) also plays tennis but still young.
I find that for DS1 especially, music has started to lag behind, just because there is not time to play/practice...He wants to give up piano lessons after his G6, which I'm fine about; but still wants to play his horn and guitar.
If you have this situation when does music practice happen?
At the moment two younger DS practice in the morning and then DS2 will also practice after school piano and horn, then ready for tennis. But DS1 really struggles to find time to play as he is in secondary school and leave early, so less time in the morning.
I remember that miniealing had similar thing?
So sorry it's a long post...

Irvine just a suggestion on playing with CD. Have you tried downloading speedshifter from ABRSM site and then initially you can adjust the speed so that his confidence grows. I tried this with my DS2 (cello player) and it works well, then slowly built it up to how it should be? Just a though, I'm no music teacher just parent so not sure if this is approriate

Thank you, thank you all!

It must be me but stupid question: how do you play with the cd if you play the piano? I mean I do get it with the cd for accompanying dd does it too before exams, but I can't see how you would play with the cd when you play the piano pieces. Would you even hear the cd over your playing? Or do you have to kill all dynamics to hear the cd?

Dd got her best marks (30 and 28) for pieces that really sounded her own and were not a copy of the cd, in fact quite different, she included some ral. she put her own dynamics in one as it was baroque so not much instruction in the printed copy. When we listened to the cd we foud dd's interpretation (and her teacher's input) were totally different in dynamics but her marks were really good.

And thank you musicathome you're so lucky you got theory out the way, I just haven't got the energy to do it with dd, I'll put her into classes in Sept.

I hate playing with a metronome; however, if you need to fix the rhythm but playing at the suggested speed is causing mistakes, put it on much slower than you need and gradually increase it. Otherwise it gets very stressful for the player and anyone near them!
Nothing will make me like metronomes - my solution in a last-minute exam panic was to get DS1 to help me with the rhythm!
I would be very wary of the cd for piano for exactly the reasons Fleur gives but it is helpful to listen to for an overall idea. DS2 sort of uses it to choose pieces except he changed his mind in his A section piece between listening to the cd and going to his lesson!

I do think it's very odd teaching to be insisting on playing along with a CD at this stage. I really wouldn't! There are bound to be some pauses/ rubato in any case, and the child shouldn't have to follow someone else's.

Not much going on here today - Rara has swimming, and we are going shopping. I'll try to make some videos later.

Yes dd is choosing the pieces off the cd or uses it if we ever get stuck on a rhythm that she cannot fix but she listens to it and then plays. And it can be done without cd (obviously) but it is helpful for those moments when "slow it down and count" are going past deaf ears.

Metronome - another one that dd's teacher is not keen on, she asked us to get one because you need it but use it only when she asks dd to. She asks very rarely. She says you become mechanical and sound robotic if your music is completely rhythm accurate but doesn't have breathing space.

We had the worse with one of dd's grade 3 pieces, she played it with the metronome to speed it up and then it took the teacher over a month to explain to dd that music has to breathe, that a bit of ral here and there sounds better that a fraction of a second suspense would add to its beauty. Nope, dd kept playing it the way the metronome said unless I sat next to her to remind her what to do. I can't remember the exact marks she got for it but I remember I wasn't impressed. Never again.

We never listened to CD for exams, even for choosing pieces. The teacher played each piece and DS picked which one he liked during lesson. But I can see now that if the listing and choosing bits had been done at home, he wouldn't have wasted the precious time during lesson. And also, he would have had more time to think of it. We may get a CD next time when he does exams so he could listen and choose his pieces with more time.

musicathome, I'll follow your posts with interest as balancing music and sports is my constant concerns. We are kind of dealing with the situation at a time and sort of managing alright so far but mainly because DS is not that high level yet and that we are deliberately holding him back in some areas. When people learnt that DS would start JD from this coming September, the first thing the most of them said to me was how he would find time for his commitments in sport. We don't know yet...

Clarinet lesson done, dd only practised twice last week but her teacher was still happy with it lol.

We listen to the cd as dd is a lot of time choosing pieces that are not in the book so we don't have the music to play it. Her teacher does play the pieces in the book and any alternatives she has but sometimes dd wants a piece from another book after listening to the Cd like it was the case with Summertime.

hi lovely videos - thank you; getting a little lost on who is whose dc though :) Will try to persuade dd to do one this weekend

Oh Fleur, many well done to miniFleur, I am glad that now all your worrying is over, ABRSM must have felt it hence released the result earlier than the usual 2 weeks

Irvine: we did practise with you tube once long time ago then we realised it was a dissaster, even when you know the pieces and play it very well your dynamic can still be different, this is something that magical about music that I find, the same piece can be played very differently, sometimes it doesnt mean anyone plays better than the others.

Mini videos' are a treat to watch, thanks so much for posting, it reminds mine when she was the age(she wasnt as good), however mine was grumpy and didnt have that lovely smile.

Fleur: we are very worried about theory at first, we never heard of it before, our teacher never taught us theory. Mine just turned 8 by then and only has done g3 piano. I couldnt find any class, course near by, with the cost and travelling commitment then it isnt worth it. We started the pink book and it was hard, we then bought the abrsm practice book, do it then read pink book again, we only refer to the section that we need, not word by word. I also found mymusictheory web site was helpful. After few g1, g2, g3 past papers then she hooked up with theory. She loved it snd could sit for an hour with a g4 past paper and eager rechecked her mark, reread pink book bits she didnt understand. Our teacher did help to explain bits that she didnt understand well. We paid £70 or smth for books, past papers(we didnt do every past papers, as soon as we hit over 85% then we moved to the next grade). She only started after Easter then sat it in June and it was ok. So, do not think about it too much, just keep practise and reading. It helps her massively with her sight reading, which used to be her weakness and her improvision which she occasionally writes a small few lines and plays along. She wants to do g6 and above theory, I just havent foubd a reason to pay for it why she doesnt commit on her practical practice.

A massive benefit which I found that she learnt from her theory is being able to play after listening to a piece. We heard she played halleluja very nicely with her violin the other day(well, instead of practising for her exam pieces which are very rusty right now) after we went to a concert and listened to it. Then when I visited her room that night I saw the music piece paper. She wrote it down from her memory when she heard it the night before. I have no idea whether it was anywhere near correct, however from the sound of the violin it sounds very similar to my non-musical ears.

minimusic finally had a chance to watch. She's indeed very musical and proficient, very nice playing, thanks for uploading them!

I realized I should identify myself when I upload. musicathome the young man...

Who uploaded the *Hurlstone piece practice" ? Sorry, it's dark and couldn't tell who was playing. It was awesome.

Fleur 's timeline:
panic
too early
more panic
she's not ready
wait, she is ready
nerves
exam - tears
upset
she's failed
she's surely failed
no more exams
whaaaaat?
a MERIT

Green thanks for the advice, I don't think dd will be that taken with theory but we'll wait and see, she does enjoy her practice books now she's still on the grade 3 book. The thing is there's no time. From now till September I want to start a bit of 11+ exam practice plus MAT exam and prepare her for the music audition in case she goes past the MAT exams.

So we'll only start thinking properly about theory from end of September. Hopefully she will want to put the effort in.

Dd also does the playing something after she heard it somewhere on both piano and clarinet I think it is amazing as I wouldn't be able to do that but I assume it is normal for most musicians as they are exposed to music every day.

Cross post with drummers.

Hahahaha I love it! The timeline is so accurate! can you tell I am a control freak? 😂

fleur what's life without a bit of drama?

I was expecting that from DS's GCSEs more than from two music exams. But I guess that's good isn't it? At least the drama was in (less important than GCSEs) music exams.

waffle; fleur and all the others with results coming in, huge congratulations to your young ones!

I am waiting eagerly for a clear run to watch all on our channel, I get rid of DD from Sunday for a week's school trip so may get to relax more in between more productive work!

musicathome: thank you, but no, she's not suzuki! Can only share own personal experience...mainly to try and remain flexible and review the priorities, making sure one doesn't drop too much at the expense of other. I feel for you, I understand tennis is seriously hard core the higher you get. Re practice and when - we I have learned to not pressure so much on quantity and resign to the fact that progress is not at the levels of junior school. But so long as the interest is there, then it's ok. Maturity of music play is an upside, when time pressure of chasing exams is off the agenda. And it's a no-no for me to turn up unprepared for stuff which is insulting to her teachers/ensembles. She's out from 06.30 (on non-training mornings) returning home at circa 9pm every night, so she tries to grab a music room during mornings/free lunches/post school between training when she can, fitted around homework. Obviously this is not great (and embarrassing to admit), but weekends, when not competing she'll do proper practice, and is getting better at self-discipline.

It's hard though. When things get a little ragged, I try and reiterate it's more important to do fewer things to best of her ability (even with limited time) than to overstretch and that may mean making some sacrifices to giving up stuff. In your case, the decision to give up piano now but continue with other instruments sounds maturely considered by your DS1 and sensible, given the stuff doing on.

In summary, children at 13+ can fall into:

1. Really able but don't love their thing as much. We see this in swimming lots, as the predictable teenage distractions kick in, some like the idea of being a swimmer more than the actual training regime, resulting in performance drop off when they show up less. Music too, not so cool to be losing breaks/lunches to orchestras, no matter how good they are, so they stop showing for all.

2. Just start to find their form and prepared to commit to higher intensity. DD was no where near qualifying times this time last year for counties let alone regional, but now comfortably at regional level a year on. Some children develop later into their thing and then fly better vs some of those more innately talented as younger children. A different attitude and drive then arises from this. Of course it varies by sport.

The first is harder for us parents to deal with. Because we know how talented they are, or potential they may have, how many years it's taken dedicated to said thing, the investment etc etc. Once that's let go, letting them make their own decisions (and sometimes mistakes) when older is easier. And many given up activities are reversible, though I accept not all performance sports are. But learning consequences of decisions is also key; as ultimately, there is only one of them, and they cannot split themselves across all.

Hahaha, just read fleur's timeline

fleur haha! Well done minifleur,

musicathome I think you have to be realistic about what's achievable or you risk burnout in at least one if not both activities.

DD doesn't do a sport but she is in a very demanding bilingual programme in a French high school, she has long hours (32 hours of lessons/ week) plus travel (3h/ day) plus homework (prob around 10 hours a week on average, sometimes more). She also plays three instruments and sings. Practice time tends to be variable and probably less than it should be - the result is that she has temporarily dropped saxophone (restarting next term), and guitar has stagnated a bit (but it is an accompanying instrument for DD, she is not a solo guitar player) while she has focused on piano. She doesn't practice piano anything like as much as some of the kids on here (maybe 2hrs/week if we're lucky outside exam or concert preparation) but she only started playing 2 years ago so she still has scope to improve without huge quantities of work

Once they are at grade 8 ish I don't think it really matters (unless they want to pursue musical studies beyond school) - even if they play less for a while they are not going to go backwards, and they can pick it up when the motivation and the time is available.

It probably makes sense to avoid too many exams and to focus on music for pleasure.