July Music and Musicians Thread

[Wafflenose]

Welcome to wet July (well it's wet here) and a new thread. This is the place where we can talk about all things musical, like music lessons, exams, practice and new instruments. I am a music teacher (woodwind) and have two daughters. Goo is 10 and her first instrument is recorder, although on paper, flute has now caught up. She plays flute in NCO Under 11s, has just received the difficult bits she's meant to work on, so is finally cracking on with sorting out her piccolo. She started piano lessons at Easter and is going fast, currently playing Grade 3 pieces, and working through the Grade 2 sight reading and Dozen a Day books. Rara is 8 and far less keen - we are still currently trying to figure out what she really enjoys so that we can encourage her. But for now, she's learning the recorder and cello, and is between Grade 2 and 3 on both.

Goo did her flute exam on June 23rd, and now won't have any until at least March, or next June if I can push for that. Rara will probably do Grade 3 Recorder at Christmas. I have had a quiet exam term for my pupils - 7 altogether. 4 are already safely through (3 merits and a distinction), we are awaiting results for a Grade 6 Theory, and I have a couple of clarinettists still to go on Monday.

I'm doing the hands over ears I can't hear you song about Saturdays! Next term, DS2 is doing training strings on Saturday morning but DS1's percussion group are no longer intermediate, they are now 'senior', which is lovely and as a result they have gone on the trip to Germany today, but it means they will be rehearsing on a weekday evening. DS1 may drop the other Saturday ensemble in favour of ANOTHER evening one in addition to his evening music lessons. And there's a risk he'll be doing a Saturday morning art thing instead.
And my DCs are just enthusiasts who like to play - I can't imagine what happens with the serious child musicians on this thread. I am in awe of all of you parents!

I'm with you loose - just thankful that mine does not have aspirations to take music to a professional level (at this point) but always trying to juggle the various ensembles and lessons to ensure it's kept to a high level.

She was approached a few times when younger to audition for JD but she couldn't be torn away from her saturday ballet and swimming lessons. A few years on she's able to make culls herself (albeit reluctantly) and we re-prioritise the activities. The better/more advanced they get, the more commitment an activity requires, with currently swimming taking 15+ hours a week alongside her music commitments (and then school sports where possible). This may change in a year!

I constantly feel like her diary's like a Krypton Factor puzzle (I know, showing my age!) but the key in our household is to remain flexible and adjust where necessary. She is in awe of the music talent in her school with lots clearly destined for music at HE level, but I think there is also room for musicians who have not gone down the Saturday music school route but can still participate at a decent level and command respect. But, she's clearly not going to be as good as those who put more hours into their music making, but enjoys the level of participation she gets.

Green, I agree with those recommending a summer type school - mine's off to one for the 3rd year running (was 9 in her 1st year and went solo). Never complains once about the circa 8 hours of music (unlike the hour at home) and catches up with likeminded friends in a fantastic Malory Towers environment, with lashings of lemonade and and plenty icing on the cake (s) !

ealing sounds like your DD shows a lot of commitment to her swimming, good for her! Very hard to juggle with music as you advance I imagine as everything needs more time the better you get!
I could see DCs doing something related to music but it would be more on the technical/computing side, not performance. Unless you count DS1's belief that he will one day be in a world-famous rock band - well, a boy can dream!
Green I know exactly what you mean about weekends and agree that holiday courses are probably the way to go to expose MiniGreen to more ensemble playing. Best of luck with the 11+ tutoring as well. I am pretty sure after the grade 5 theory result that you won't have anything to worry about!
The music/maths thing is interesting - I'm convinced I saw little maths connections being made in DS2's infant brain when he started to learn piano. He certainly improved but whether that was just being a bit more mature and less chatty with his mates in class or the music lessons, we'll never know!

I'm with you too on the Saturday school thing Loose.

For me there has always been the worry that I was not giving mine enough in the way of external opportunities as I taught them and we live very close to the Conservatoire. But my counterweight has always been that they need balance and too much too soon can eventually put them off for life or risk resentments later on.

My DF was a semi professional musician but still resented my DG's insistence on piano practice throughout his childhood. OTOH the boy who sat next to me in Maths is a very commercially successful international pop star and he is thankful of his DM's perseverance with his piano lessons - in common with me he was never more than a hobby musician at school. (Sorry that wasn't even a stealth boast but I couldn't resist given Loose's son's ambitions).

DD2 is doing every variant of scale on a note a week at the moment in her quest to cement them. I have been roped in for moral support and so may yet crack piano grade 5.

I have to admit-I would love dd to go to JD - merely because of all the learning opportunities it provides, higher level tuition, plenty of music activities including orchestra. On the other hand, I don't see any reasons for not staying with current teachers till grade 8s are done and then to explore other options.
Talking about taking music on professional level-my concern is that when they start and get advanced that early they inevitably consider this option. I like dd's teacher attitude towards that - he said that if his students want to become professional musicians he tries to convince them not to (as it is too hard but low paid job) and only if they still want to he helps them to take it to the professional level.
But I see music lessons and related activities as a way of taking childhood years to a different level even without having it as a career in adult life.

howabout you can't say you know an international pop star and not say who it is!
Suspect even DS1 doesn't really believe he will be a rock star but he likes to put the idea out there!
Good luck with the scales - you'll be at grade 5 way before me. Yesterday I was plodding through my third grade 4 piece and the sight reading! I have vowed serious and committed practice during the holidays!
Only I completely agree - music has given both my DCs an awful lot of enjoyment so far and a very good focus. They aren't very sporty so it is a social thing outside school but they're also learning a load of skills that they don't even realise they're learning. I am sure it helped DS1 with his transition to secondary school and suspect it will be the same for DS2.

Going to state school has 1 good thing that it has less holiday, that means saving childcare. Now I dont appreciate it that much as I would like more holiday, I'd like her to start some practising. Since the violin exam, we had 1 lesson and there hasnt been much practice. We are working on few etudes, dictations. We havent discussed about what pieces we will choose yet, I just mentioned tonight that its better to play the grade 3 ones she just did and she said she is bored of them (come on!)

How: I'd like to know him too
Loose: we all have dreams, at least his dream has something to do with music so that is a little more motivation here
Ealing: I am hoping mine will be like yours, enjoy variety of activities and participate in them with commitment. 15 hours swimming a week is great. How do you find all this time? Do you have a pool? I'd like mine to swim well too, I think its also a very important skill
Only: JD in a year or so, it might be true, its a long game, we dont know how it ends, we just have to be in it to have a chance. I have heard you all say here that being a musician, the pay isnt generous, is it true? I thought professional artists are all wealthy(they might be poor cos they spend too much on drugs and irresponsible luxurious lifestyle)

Greenleave, I think JD starts at around 11yo, I may be wrong though. It is worth investigating far in advance in order to have time to meet requirements - all information is available on college's web-sites.

Pay wise - I read some career reference manual- pay is about £28-30k? Depends on job though.

But then think about it this way - what is job all about? If it is a teaching job it is very often evening hours at school time, and though it may look like teachers earn a fortune - they are not, just because of hours they make - they are limited.

If it is a performing job - think how many major orchestras are there and what competition for places is - HUGE. And then you may end up playing the same piece again and again -say The Snowman is on stage somewhat Nov-Jan period? How many times someone has to play "We are walking in the air" on piano during these three months? . Dozens? Hundreds? And then there are not so major orchestras and what sort of revenue they bring and what salaries musicians have? And then you may be a freelance musician. Which means life on the road because of engagements at various parts of the country. And permanent orchestra or not - there will be tours too. Don't want to sound sexist but this is extremely difficult job for females, looks like majority of them end up teaching....
Yes, international stars may earn a fortune but they have the same difficulties - travelling, etc.
Horrible job if you think about it And think how much you have to learn to do it.

Some pay review
dreamingrealist.co.uk/2007/11/05/orchestral-salaries-in-the-uk/

I once worked with a client who was a BBC singer.... He was poor....don't remember figures but it was below £30K. It was around 15 years ago though

Sorry, I don't mean £30K is too little, I mean if someone is working for BBC you would expect different figures. I would be quite happy with £30K salary in my profession but I didn't need to spend all my life learning it and practicing for it every day

Forgot to mention those who play music at weddings, funerals, etc.... - weekend job and travelling too... Exhausting!

at your question green about if we have a pool. Our lovely typical mid terrace garden little bit of decking can barely hold a paddling pool, but it's still outdoor space as all good London estate agents say!

She swims for a local club that uses West London leisure and school pools so she can get to before and after school independently so I only have to run around for pick ups thankfully, now she's older! But it means music is pushed to during school breaks/lunches (and her self discipline) and weekends only so there is a downside...

We have done no music practice in a week due to being on holiday (bad timing as London was hotter). Hopefully the orchestra course, and chamber music course will compensate for this on violin. Waffle/ clarinetists: do we need to get the clarinet serviced? I've read about this, but we never send the violin away, just wait in the shop while bits are replaced....

My lovely neighbour now in her 60s is still professionally playing her violin in a variety of ways to pay the bills, in addition to taking the odd private student. Many years at LSO, associate teaches at one of the main conservatoires, studio work and BBC/film score stuff all the time. The stories she tells about the famous people she's worked with. And she's good, really good in her field, coming from a famous music school (with interestingly, not one board exam to her name)!.

But, the sad thing is, she's really bitter about what type of life it's resulted in. It sounds like an actor's life, when the females get overlooked as they get older to make way for the younger, more glamorous talent, after years at being at the top. And the casting couch stories and the insecurities it's left her with...The fight for solos was a real cat fight in her day, and she says now she barely gets 30 mins of sight reading prep before playing live, as the industry is paid by the hour, and can dictate lower rates than 10 years ago (again, just like actors).

I know it's anecdotal, but went a fair way to putting my DD off from an early age, though she's also very lucky to have befriended such a character that has resulted in a touching and contrasting kinship!

Interesting comment ealingwestmum. We went to Menuhin competition Gala concert few months ago. The orchestra was Philharmonia Orchestra. Naturally I was looking at the first violins section. The violinists sitting in front (towards section leader ) looked young and not even beautiful but stunning! The older ones (and more experienced?) were sitting at the back....

Ealing - my DD has had the same sort of 'insight' and is adamant she doesn't want to be a professional; she has good female role model teachers (who are professional performers first) and she sees the co ti ups juggle, travel, etc. Many jobs are the same of course, but npmusic does seem v tough.

Se22 - we get the clarinets in for a quick check quite regularly as both are new and still settling in and have needed shaving down etc, try to get them checked out before courses so at least we know pads etc are ok but full service is only every year or longer. Our shop of,choice has a very long waiting list for services but are usually ok to have a quick check/adjustment when we need

In London with 30k, its impossible to start a mortgage and graduate jobs for banks/financial firm start at £35k, its £20k more after couple of trainee years and someone could easily earn £100k after 5-7 yrs in big banks ( the hours usually bad though) Its so unfair isnt it, you have to have a good pay, a comfortable living standard to produce a piece of Arts, its so hard to devote for it when your head is on the next mortgage direct debit, next meals...(I often see myself as barbarian when I sit in front of these artists, their talent/ability is so superior to me).

My teacher is young, might be 25. He graduated from Royal school of Music. He is now playing Organs in couple of churches and have odd students like us(we are the only violin student). He said he doesnt want to go anywhere else as London is the best place for musician like him, there is always so much going on in London. I dont/cant never negotiate fee with him and often worry he might leave us as £50/hr is nothing compare to his talent/ability. Deep down I think he comes to us because he likes my daughter, who manytime drives him mad with laying/rolling on floor, never appears to be listening or understanding whatever he said then the next lesson she usually can just do what he wanted her to do from the previous lesson.(similar to everytime I show her some maths then I'd thought she didnt get it, she doesnt even look like she is interested and focus on what I am explaining then I give her some small practises and she do them ok)
Well, I was joking about JD too Only, I wont look until in couple of years(if she still plays and if she has been progressing better). My goal for this summer is to get her start practising piano again and revise the couple of grade 3 violin pieces for the audition.

We have done absolutely NO instrument practice since last week, though the DC have been composing things on flat.io.

A professional musician's life seems very hard. :(

Se22 we have our clarinets and saxophone serviced by a lady in Mitcham. There's probably someone closer to you (assuming you are in SE22!) but if you want her details pm me. You leave the instrument with her and she takes a few days/week depending on how busy she is. She's v good and v reasonable!

Has anyone seen the thread in AIBU about why parents encourage music?

NeverEver it's already 5 pages long! So just had time to browse, really. The AIBU threads make me very uncomfortable. Most of the time the OP makes a valid question and she/he gets lynched like in a Roman circus. A lot of people on Mumsnet are very angry and just waiting to bite someone, IMO. This thread is a perfect sample. DS is talking about doing music professionally and I am scared about his future. So scared that sometimes I even wonder whether encouraging it was good or bad parenting! I'm probably just reflecting from my own career problems (in the arts, freelance). But the OP question is definitely valid and she/he has all the right to raise it...

Wow, just read it. I hope my previous post did not come across as putting anyone off going into it professionally, as this seems to be the crux of their debate - should we learn things just for pleasure of should all roads lead to some path of financial value.

Drummersmum, the challenge we have is how do we balance our children choosing a career path that enables them to support themselves, that also helps them to stay as close as they can to something they love to do in the long term. This is often unreconcilable, and the OP's question is valid, but he/she has also been quick to negate the wider value attached to music, arts etc to focus on financial return alone.

Your son is accumulating a whole bunch of musical skills, supplemented by his academic curiosity and drive to achieve everything he does to its highest level that will create a wider choice of opportunities. At this point, it is so hard to see whether this all gets converted into a fruitful career but I don't think it's any different from a child now qualifying from law, or medicine and being disillusioned after 10 years with their sector with little transferable skills because their specialism was so narrow, or didn't have the extra resilience developed through years of music graft, language development or experiencing sport triumphs and failures. He probably will be far more commercially astute than his peers because he will be aware of the downsides but find the growth opportunities that will play to all his strengths. This is the wider value the OP seems to be missing. Coding (as an example) is relevant for today maybe, but I am not convinced of its longevity if one doesn't go into it loving it. However, I totally agree that a child should also not be forced to play an instrument if they don't seem to have developed a bond with it, though this is contentious I know for some, just because the parents believe it will give them wider benefits.

I guess my point is what is a safe career bet now? I can totally empathise, having sacrificed a 25 corporate career to now enter self employed world in a completely non-related field. It doesn't generate the same cash, but most who know me say I am a much happier person (give or take the odd dark day). Would I have been as content if I had made that choice 25 years ago? Probably not as it would not have provided the level of financial security as I have now.

A good parent will try to support their children to fulfil their aspirations. A very good parent will ensure their children go into their passion with their eyes open...which you are doing, as you have 1st hand experience also to impart. But scary nevertheless...

So sorry, that was horribly long!