Is 12 too late to start an instrument from scratch?

[Dancergirl]

Dd is 12 and just finishing Year 7.

She's tried recorder and piano in the past but gave them up. A lot of her friends play musical instruments and I've suggested maybe she takes up something new but both she and I are unsure which instrument.

She is a bit unsure about it all but I know dd, she needs lots of encouragement and I think as long as it's the right instrument for her, I think she would really enjoy it.

I'm just worried that 12 is late to start when lots of other dc her age are already at a high grade or starting a second instrument or whatever. I know it's not a competition but I don't want her to be daunted or put off.

I'm musical myself - I played the piano from about age 8 which was ok but I found it very solitary, and then started clarinet at secondary which I loved and enjoyed ensemble playing.

I thought dd should maybe consider a more unusual instrument as there is more demand for them but she's very small physically so it's got to something she could manage size wise.

Any ideas?

Thanks all, that's really helpful.

ferguson she did ballet for a number of years and is now keen on drama/musical theatre etc. Music wise - songs from shows normally along with usual pop stuff.

She did the recorder a long time ago, probably too long ago for her to link it to saxophone, although that could still be a possibility.

So either woodwind or brass for quick progression then? And avoid strings?

What sort of ensemble playing for guitar is there?

Yes I'd avoid strings, frankly. They take a fiendish amount of work before they start sounding even vaguely good, and kids from musical middle class families often take them up at 4 or 5, getting through those early stages and being really advanced by the time they're your DD's age. Unless she has some ungodly certainty that she was born to play the cello, it's just asking for disappointment really.

Woodwind or brass, great.

Agree with Waffle - definitely not too late. I have had plenty of adult beginners on fiddle and piano, and a teenaged student's dad just passed his grade two cello (taught by a colleague). I also get lots of teen beginners on piano, but in this case I'd go for wind or brass. French horn is soooooo gorgeous (but hard).

Guitar is a funny one. Having 1:1 lessons usually seems to me starting with reading music and playing fully written, melodic pieces. My understanding is that the early stages of this a quite a bit harder than many people expect, in terms of coordination etc.

That in itself doesn't have a huge amount of scope for ensemble playing. Primary school ensembles where they play those adaptable arrangements with a part for anything you like, will accommodate a guitar (although you'll never be able to hear it). But orchestras, wind bands etc, not.

Where it really comes into its own as an ensemble music is when you start learning chords and how to play from chord charts and by ear. Then you have the whole pop/roch thing open to you, from playing the guitar part in the school big band to forming your own four-piece with your friends and sitting in your bedroom writing maudlin songs about how tough it is being a teenager.

What I'm not sure about is how much of the first you need to do to do the second. Some people move on to chords after a few years learning classically. Some people seem to just pick it up and learn them in a largely self-taught way. It probably depends on what kind of teacher you have, and what exactly you want to do with it. (Big band playing would require more reading and training than writing your own pop songs, for example).

I played the cello from 9 till around 15 (very seriously) . At 15 it no longer became cool and/or there was not the option for me to play regularly, I did not want to pursue music as a career however I'm glad that my parents/school gave me the opportunity to widen my horizons..

However,when I became a parent, having experienced the above, I realised that many
parents push their children to achieve grades far earlier than I did. This frankly scares me. Unless, your child is a prodigy, which , let's face it, they probably are not going to be the next Vanessa Mae.

Let them choose.

Would you choose a sport for them ?

Definitely not too late. Many wind instruments are very hard for younger children to play due to their size or need for strong lungs etc.
I'd say 12 is a good age. I took up a brass instrument at age 12 and made good progress. I passed grade 7 at the end of year 11.

DD took up a brass instrument at 12, she loves it and has partially based her uni choice on the opportunity to play in bands/ensembles. Her degree is not music based. Not too late.

Powder, that's fantastic, she chose an instrument that will obviously bring her much joy now and in the future.

No - not at all.

DD took up 4 new instruments after the age of 12 - enjoys them all and plays very well. If you have a musical child they will learn at any age.
Enjoyment is the most important thing.
GCSE music destroyed her enjoyment, so she dropped it and concentrated on just playing instead.

Please let us know what she decides! I find it so exciting letting children choose, and have an existing piano pupil trying out on flute, clarinet and saxophone next week to see which one speaks to her. Love it!!

Re guitar - classical guitar is going to be hard work at 12. It's esoteric and a rather solitary pursuit.

Contemporary/ jazz guitar, though, gives quick returns (my dd was playing complete songs within a week) and can be very sociable. It also doesn't necessarily require any music-reading ability as most non-classical music is written in tab (v easy to learn).

Update:

I took dd to my older daughter's music teacher so she could try a couple of instruments. She teaches mainly woodwind but had some others too. Dd tried oboe and clarinet and managed to get a decent sound out of both after a few tries. Tried a bugle but didn't get on with that so brass is out I think.

However, what did she like best? Violin! She tried the teacher's daughter's violin and made a nice sound with the bow.

I'm a bit wary about strings from all the advice on here but it's the one she's most keen on. The other thing is, she's dyspraxic and has sensory issues and I think she would feel more comfortable with something that doesn't require putting in your mouth!

Not keen on guitar, I'd prefer her to learn an orchestral instrument.

So is violin a bad idea? I did ask the teacher about viola instead as they're more in demand but she says pretty much all viola players play the violin too.

Try and watch some of the Proms on TV; while listening to an unfamiliar piece, try and GUESS where the tune is going next. That helps to start an understanding of how music is constructed.

Look on YouTube for items by Nicola Benedetti, and she also has a nice website:

www.nicolabenedetti.co.uk/

So if you can, let her have a go at violin. But for both of you, be prepared for a lot of concentration, hard work, and probably disappointments sometimes.

Let her play the violin if she wants to. She'll practise if it's what she wants to play, and it doesn't really matter if others started before her, does it? At 12 she will probably progress quite quickly.

Thank you, will see how it works out. I've tried to lead her towards woodwind but if she's not keen then it has to be her choice.

A friend of mine started violin at around 11 or 12 and amazingly she made really fast progress, she was Grade 5 standard within a year. I know that's very unusual though. The important thing is that dd enjoys playing and I imagine there are lots of ensemble opportunities for violin at school.

DD - also a dancer - played clarinet like her elder brother for a few years. She stopped at the end of primary. Her teacher said she was capable of doing Grade 3 or 4 at that point, but she never 'loved' it.

She took u the cello on starting secondary, having lessons in school because outside school is so tricky with dance lessons to fit in too.

she's doing really well and enjoys it - it is the 'whole body' thing that seems to fit much better with her being a dancer, if that makes sense. Woodwind was 'mouth and fingers' whereas with the cello she's involving both arms and moving lots more of her body and that style seems to suit her.

As she cold already read music, while she has had to translate to the bass clef, she has found some aspects easier than a 'true' beginner, and she has a good feeling for rhythm. I was worried about intonation, but she has a good ear as it turns out.

Shes never going to be fabulous - and her dancing rules out lots of the ensembles etc that her brother does - but she's enjoying herself.

Dancergirl I know it's hard but please don't try to 'lead' her into anything or persuade her to do something she isn't interested in. If she would like to learn the violin and then join an ensemble then fine, but if not then she doesn't have to - she might get all the fun she needs from playing on her own. If you push her into it, then she might get put off altogether! You mentioned finding piano a solitary experience, but she is a different person, and will like to do things differently, so try not to assume she will feel the same way as you did.

Yes very good point taxi and I'm trying to let her take the lead regarding instrument choice etc. The only thing I would say is, knowing dd, she often does need a lot of encouragement to try things and then goes on to enjoy them very much. I would never make her do things she wasn't enjoying or make her carry on with something that wasn't working out for her....but some children just do need a little of pushing in the right direction which may well open doors for them.

Oh definitely, the lead has to come from them, we are just the facilitators...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

I don't think so. I started piano at 10 and did a grade per year until I hit 15 and couldn't be ar*d any more. I started guitar at 14 and my years of reading music really helped so I advanced quicker (but then I left school the next year and stopped which is a shame really as I wasn't bad at that)

I started the flute at 12 (though having done piano since 9) and got Grade 8 at 17, studied music at uni and now work in music (though not primarily as a performer and I certainly was never music college/professional performer material).

Woodwind/brass instruments are easier to progress quickly in than piano/strings.

It's never too late to get a lot out of playing an instrument!

If she goes for oboe, bassoon, french horn or something like that there'll likely be lots of playing opportunities as orchestras often struggle to find players for these instruments. Though none of these are as easy a win as say the flute or clarinet. But they're such beautiful instruments. If I were to rewind to being 12 I'd take up the french horn!

Wow, somehow I’ve come across my post from 10 years ago! (Different username).

Dd is now 22. She eventually tried violin for a while but preferred to stick to drama which she is very good at.

I, on the other hand, have now fulfilled my aim to join a brass band. I took up the cornet about 5 years ago and after a bit of a rocky start, have passed Grade 5. I have just joined my local brass band and absolutely loving it.

I hope no one misses my update and suggest an instrument for dd 😂 Couldn’t help posting my news.

Not too late at all. Ds only began piano at age 13 and he is now at conservatoire and playing for professional productions! I know his trajectory is a bit unusual but is shows it is not too late to get to a good standard.

Tell her to learn bass and to learn how to read music. There is a shortage of reading bass players in amateur musical theatre pit bands! Or even better, drums, reading drummers are in big demand too!

Ha, ha, yes I missed it!

Lovely to hear about you and the band though

Aw how lovely for you! That certainly answers the is it ever too late question too :)