Ballet lessons in more than one school

[Oakmaiden]

My daughter is interested in taking more ballet lessons than she currently does - she is 11 years old, and when not preparing for a festival/exam she does 45 mins ballet, and the same for tap and modern, as well as 30 mins limber. This is all her dance school offers for her age group - and to be honest I cannot find any other schools in the area who offer more. However, she feels she should be dancing more than once a week to progress, and I am unsure what to do about it. Is it OK to train with more than one dance school? I don't, realistically, think her current school will offer any more hours...

It can cause all sorts of problems and I wouldn't really suggest going to two schools for the same discipline. There are exceptions to this. For example have you looked into associate classes? Are there any Royal Ballet Junior Associate classes near to you? My dd is 11. She dances:

Mondays: ballet interfoundation (1hr 15mins) and stretch (45mins)
Tues: jazz (45mins), Greek (45mins) student programme (this can be anything from a conditioning class to jazz; 45 mins) tap (30mins)
Weds: ballet grade 6 (45 mins) ballet interfoundation (1hr 15mins)
Thurs: tap (45mins)
Friday: song and performance (30mins) modern (45mins)
Saturday: ballet interfoundation (1hr 45 mins) ballet intermediate (1hr 15mins) stretch (30mins).

Then on top of this she has festival rehearsals, extra exam classes, workshops and occasional master classes. She wouldn't go to another dance school because we have seen how it can split loyalties and cause problems (and also she couldn't possibly fit it in!). Also many dance schools don't allow students to go elsewhere!

Have you considered asking at her studios for a regular private to work on technique? A one on one could see amazing improvements worth much more than a lesson with another school.

Thanks for your response.

Her current school is excellent at tap and modern, and to start with she just learnt tap and modern there and went elsewhere to learn ballet. Then her schedule changed so that the ballet class fell in between the tap and modern class, so I moved her to do ballet at the same school. If I am honest this hasn't been a huge success. The school's actual ballet teacher (and owner of the studio) is great, but hasn't taught my daughter for about 18 months now (due to a horrible back injury which eventually was resolved following an often cancelled operation, and now the poor woman has pneumonia). She has been having lessons with the daughter of the tap teacher - who I am not sure is even a qualified teacher (I know she is a student at the nearby uni). All this has also meant that whilst she moved to ballet at this school 3 years ago and about to do Grade 1 ISTD, she still has done no further exams.

I think her lack of progress was really hammered home to her when she took part in a dance festival this weekend, and whilst she did well in modern and tap, it was so clear that she was so far behind the other children her age in ballet (she was the only one from her school who entered the ballet class). Also there were basic problems in her technique which were alluded to by the judge (she talked about poor placement etc - I haven't read the transcript yet, can only remember that).

So - the basic situation is we don't want to leave the studio she is at now - she enjoys the classes, likes the teachers, loves the atmosphere there - and just stopping ballet there would be a pain because of its placement in between the other classes, and the fact that the teachers are quite fluid in which lessons go when (they often extend one lesson and shorten another, for example - there are 12 children in the class, and they all do all disciplines, so that works well. However, I am not convinced that the current teacher is very good, so wouldn't particularly want private lessons with her (my daughter had a few in the lead up to the festival and placement etc was never mentioned - just her hands, really, which do on occasion look at bit like spiders...) and even when the "proper" teacher comes back, I don't think she would be particularly keen on giving her extra lessons privately (she did for my son for a while, but it was clear it was only on a short term basis so that he could catch up with his age group).

But - without leaving this studio, she does want to improve, and is aware that compared to other children at the festival she does very little dance in the week. Unfortunately these children were not local, so changing to their dance school isn't an option. So the only option I can think of is putting her in a pure ballet school, alongside her dance school. Her old school does "only" ballet, and I think the teacher there was originally taught by dds current studio owner... and they don't do shows or festivals, so there will be far fewer clashes or opportunities for divided loyalties... JA isn't an option as 1. she is too far behind, 2. her current teacher is ISTD and also (crucially) there isn't one near us, I think.

I'm not really sure what to do... Except ramble on, apparently...

Your post also sort of proved my point - 45 minutes a week is not really enough ballet for good progress at 11 years old, is it?

I can't see any way around it without doubling up on schools though...

At that age, we went to a small school that did just ballet and contemporary. They did 2 ballet and one contemporary. It was enough with high school.

One did another class with another school - owner was a bit shirty about it but took my money (and had no suitable other classes available anyway which is why we went to the small school in the first place) - they did lots of shows and very little exam work, so we dropped that at 11.

The small school was better able to accommodate people who took it up later, as well. They got one into an enrichment scheme and the other into a local contemporary performance group.

My children all just danced in a dance festival this weekend and I have to say, fair play to your dd doing the ballet at 11 and grade 1. Was it a novice class? My dd, who does as much as I have detailed above, came 3rd out of 20 children in the ballet 11 and 12 years. She is grade 6/interfoundation for ballet. She has danced since she was 2. She is taking her interfoundation ballet exam in a couple of weeks and is very much in love with her performing.

Can I ask you what level she is at with modern and tap? My dd is grade 4 ISTD tap and grade 5 ISTD modern. The Greek she does is also ISTD and a good accompaniment for ballet but a bit freer.

Even the children just starting ballet at our school are usually put into grade 3 at 11. I think you definitely need to have a word with the teacher.

No, not novice. She won a medal in the novice class last year, so was in the 9-10 year this time (her birthday came just after the qualifying date). There were, I think, 7 or 8 children in her class, and she wasn't placed and didn't qualify for the regionals. Which was no surprise, the others were mostly Harlequins in a different class entirely.

She is only Grade 3 for tap and modern too - they have fallen a bit behind on grades because of forementioned teacher illness, and the fact the school do a lot more festival/show work than grade work. Which wasn't a problem until dd started to decide to take it seriously and talk about going to dance school. And she is behind. She did well in the festival apart from ballet though - qualified in tap and modern group, couldn't in novice lyrical because she was in novice, but did well mark wise for that and modern solo.

However, I have spoken to her tap teacher today, and she says that she will speak to the studio owner about DD coming to other classes - so she can probably join the grade above and the one below for extra lessons, which will help with building strength and improving technique.

[name edited out MNHQ]

I wouldn't call Grade 3 particularly behind for modern and tap. Dd is grade 4 for tap but most of her age group are grades 2/3.

Festival work can be good for young dancers and from my experience does pull them up quite efficiently. Your lucky to have a novice lyrical class, we don't have that near us!

How many festival solos does she do? Ballet, tap, modern and lyrical? My dd does ballet, tap, Greek, character, modern, lyrical, song and dance and street jazz. She also dances in groups and duets/trios.

Ballet is the basis for everything though, so I would definitely be looking to address the problems with that. Maybe if you discuss it with the teacher then she will have some suggestions for you. If she is serious about her dancing then she definitely needs to be progressing.

Ah yes, dd has danced against some of the Harlequin girls at Mardi gras and all England.

Frankly I think you need to be looking for a new dance school for everything. It doesn't seem to be strong on any of the disciplines, and if it isn't strong on ballet that will really hold your DD back more generally

OP I've reported your post in which you mentioned your child's name so it can be edited out.

Once a week isn't enough at that age & grade 1 us very behind in ballet

Prior to starting vocational school at 11 dd was behind in ballet Grades, she was only Grade 3. She's had a heck if a lot if catching up to do. However Grades 3-5 in tap & modern were about average amongst her peers.

What she has found the most useful was some private lessons with an excellent teacher we were reccomended.

Others do things like RAD or Ceccetti Associates or Associates at a school such as RBS, Tring Park, Elmhurst, Hammond, Moorland (Clitheroe), then there are Associate schemes at MIDAS (Birmingham) BTUK & various others)

Pop across to the Doing Dance forum on balletcoforum.co.uk

Posters on there may be able to let you know options in your local area.

Ack, I am notoriously useless at this incognito stuff.

"Ah yes, dd has danced against some of the Harlequin girls at Mardi gras and all England."

They were amazing. No other word for it.

Frankly I think you need to be looking for a new dance school for everything. It doesn't seem to be strong on any of the disciplines, and if it isn't strong on ballet that will really hold your DD back more generally

It does look like that, from what I have posted, but I suspect recent events have given a unfair perspective generally. It is generally considered to be the best school in the city for tap and modern (except by people who are members of the other schools, obviously!), and I can't find any schools who offer "proper" dance training (eg encouraging girls pre vocational grades to do more than one class a week except just before an exam, offering decent body conditioning/limber classes etc.).

The ballet is a huge concern for me though - it does underpin the rest, really...

I would go along with what others have said in that at 11, you really need to be doing at least two ballet classes a week of at least an hour each, in order to develop technique, placement, strength etc, and to learn the vocabulary.

If she's in Grade 1 ballet, then she won't have covered anything like the amount of syllabus she needs in order to keep up with her peers, especially if she is keen on competing in festivals, as you saw at the last one she competed in.

Perhaps it might be worth trying to find a school which teaches RAD (and preferably one that doesn't do festivals so there is no conflict of interest). Take her along for a trial lesson, and ask for advice and guidance as to whether they will be able to help her progress and bring her along so she is where she needs to be at this stage.

Don't get me wrong, there is a girl at dds full time dance school who entered at age 11 having done nothing other than an after school outreach session for a year. However she had exceptional potential, body type etc & had competed in a sort of related sport.

12 months later & she has caught up with everyone.

But if your dd wants to go to dance college later on she needs to start working towards it now. Potential only at age 11 is fine, at age 16 its impossible.

There is a poster on here whose dd only started ballet at age 14 & now at 16 is doing a pre vocational year at dance college. But again she had studied & competed in another dance firm at a high level & when she began ballet threw herself at it with multiple classes beginning at a higher grade.

my girls are younger, 5 and 7 and both do ballet, tap and modern theatre. They do 1hr ballet, 1hr modern and 30mins tap a week (but the tap is only half the class). All ISTD. Their school takes exams very late compared to others (preprimary ballet is normally age 7) but by 11 I THINK they are doing a couple of hours a week of ballet and would be about grade 3ish? bit of a guess there on the grade but the 9 year olds are doing grade 1. (modern is normally at least 1 grade higher, sometimes 2. no idea with tap)

It doesn't sound like her current dance school is great to be honest, certainly not for the ballet side of things. I think if you could find a pure ballet school, whether RAD or ISTD I don't personally think matters, then she would be able to progress.

My eight year old son is in grade 2 ballet. He has just turned eight and will be taking the exam for grade 2 in March. He is roughly average age in his class, and is actually taking his grade 1 tap this month and looking to take grade 2 modern in March. He just won most promising boy under 9 at our last festival. He is looking to try for the JA route with auditions in March/April.

I spoke to her dance school last night. They said they are spending this month preparing for an annual charity show, which she will be doing modern in. then they will have 2 weeks off for Christmas, and then straight back to prepare for exams in March. I have been told that they will be rearranging the timetable at Christmas, because there is a demand for children to do more dance, and ballet in particular. I mentioned that my daughter was thinking about full time dance school, and they said they have had children go before from them (indeed, they have had children win medals/most promising dancer etc at the All England Nationals, which I know isn't everything, but they do teach good dance generally - just not very good ballet by the looks of it) and they would make all their appropriate classes open to my daughter.

So I guess we wait until Christmas, look at the new timetable and what is going to be available for my daughter, and if there is still not enough then look at enrolling her in her old ballet classes again (which is an RAD school that just do exams - no festivals, shows or anything extra) alongside her current one.

Thanks so much for all your opinions. DD has been dancing since she was tiny, and works hard, so it seems unfair really that she has been held back by circumstances beyond her (and anyone's, really) control.

Oh, and they are planning to so Grade 2 in Marhc and then Grade 3 before next Christmas. Allegedly.

It does sound like they're a little behind in ballet, and how frustrating it sounds. I wonder why it's taken them so long to do an exam also. I'd definitely be taking a look at the other school, the RAD school. I would do that now regardless of what the current school may or may not offer.

My five year old is in grade 1 IDTA ballet at one dance school, and primary RAD ballet at another dance school. She also has a private ballet lesson every week, does modern, two tap classes, two gymnastic classes at different clubs and has just started festivals (though we're only doing two or three of these a year).

That's not much time to be completing the Grade 3 syllabus; starting March, exam before Christmas!

No, but I get the feeling they have been doing stuff which is in it already - they just haven't taken the exams. They were going to put them in for Grade 2 March just gone, but when they applied for an examiner they were told there was none available, and then the teacher had a back operation, so it was put on hold... So I guess it is possible they have already done some work on the Grade 3 syllabus.

Six months isn't necessarily a rush for the grade 3 exam anyway. My Dd did Grade 3 RAD in six weeks of private lessons. At the time our studio wasn't entering RAD exams for the lower grades (below grade 5) due to doing IDTA exams for a change, but dd wanted to enter a national competition that required her to have taken grade 3 RAD, so we rushed her through it. She still managed a high merit, taking it in an unfamiliar studio and very under prepared!

Having said that, with only one lesson a week I may feel six months was pushing it slightly!

They do have 2 lessons a week in the run up to exams.

I think we are going to leave it til Christmas and see how it goes - just make sure she is practising at home. After Christmas we will think again -- unless anyone on the Ballet forum has any better ideas for me :)