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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Ballet lessons in more than one school

76 replies

Oakmaiden · 03/11/2014 11:01

My daughter is interested in taking more ballet lessons than she currently does - she is 11 years old, and when not preparing for a festival/exam she does 45 mins ballet, and the same for tap and modern, as well as 30 mins limber. This is all her dance school offers for her age group - and to be honest I cannot find any other schools in the area who offer more. However, she feels she should be dancing more than once a week to progress, and I am unsure what to do about it. Is it OK to train with more than one dance school? I don't, realistically, think her current school will offer any more hours...

OP posts:
Picturesinthefirelight · 04/11/2014 22:00

She's a bit young for a CAT I would have thought. I know they are different everywhere but both cat schemes local to me don't take children in primary school & one doesn't offer ballet only contemporary.

Picturesinthefirelight · 04/11/2014 22:02

Dd travels 45 miles to school every day!!!'n

We used to travel about 50 miles once a month for Associates.

Picturesinthefirelight · 04/11/2014 22:02

Maybe 40 miles not 45

Picturesinthefirelight · 04/11/2014 22:03

I know a lot of Welsh dancers travel to Bristol for things.

KatyMac · 04/11/2014 22:04

They take from yr 6 here & there is a ballet class every week

Picturesinthefirelight · 04/11/2014 22:09

Minimum age of 12 here but the isn't one near the OP anyway.

I know more about North not South Wales!

Oakmaiden · 04/11/2014 22:11

The nearest is Swindon - which is about 2 hours (110 miles).

Bristol is about an hour and a half - that would be doable for a weekend thing, but not after school, obviously.... There simply wouldn't be time.

It looks like the Swindon one does do contemporary at weekends, but not til next year for my daughter. I will bookmark it for later!

OP posts:
taxi4ballet · 04/11/2014 23:30

Oakmaiden, when you are looking at the timetables for dance schools, you don't necessarily need to find one that offers two or more classes at the same grade.

Quite a lot of children take the class for the grade they are in, and the one above that as well - and is probably what your dd would need to be doing so she can catch up.

dancestomyowntune · 05/11/2014 06:45

I am in a different area to you, but I am quite shocked that the schools you are looking at aren't offering an eleven year old more classes. Dd1 has always, since the age of about four, done AT LEAST two ballet classes a week. In fact, when she took Grade five I expressed concern because there is only one grade 6 class timetabled (mainly due to the fact that most, if not all, girls and boys have started taking Interfoundation classes by the time they make it to grade 6). A year ago dd1 was attending five or six ballet classes a week, which suddenly dropped to four and that worried me! Having said that, when she takes her grade six she will be able to add in pas de deux (currently at the same time, annoyingly!).

Don't be put off by good schools because they do festivals. Our school is excellent, they get top marks in exams and regularly have ballet and modern champions at festivals. Our principle is always on the look out for performance oppurtunities for the kids and dd1 has taken part in the Mardi Gras Dance Competition at Sadlers Wells, 'A Chance to Dance' Exeter and Bournemouth, All England Dance Finals (incidentally we were the only school in our county to qualify with three groups at the last all England). Our principal is now looking at entering for the Dance World Cup, which looks like a lot of fun! However none of this detracts from the teaching of a decent technique and the reason out girls do so well in the festivals is because their performances are underpinned by solid technical ability.

Many of our ex students go away to vocational schools at 11/16/18, and many are working in the industry now.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 05/11/2014 12:15

I know a girl who did the Dance World Cup dancestomyowntune, wonderful experience for her I think from the pictures I saw. We are down in Bournemouth but our dance school doesn't do A Chance to Dance.

out of interest can someone explain the interfoundation stuff to me? I am not sure mine will keep going long enough for that but I find it all very confusing. simple grades increasing in number I can cope with but the other bits lose me. thanks

Picturesinthefirelight · 05/11/2014 12:42

RAD & ISTD graded exams are designed to be accessible to all recreational dancers. They follow a structured curriculum from Grades 1-8 (with primary exams for littlies) I think ISTD may go 1-6. There is no pointe work for girls.

Vocational exams are meant for the more serious dancer. They can be taken either instead of, or alongside the graded exams. They include pointe work for girls & there is more of an emphasis on artistry. If a dancer wants to become a registered teacher they have to have reached a certain level in these exams before starting their teaching diploma.

They start at Intermediate Foundation (usually started when a student is around Grade 4-5 though it does depend)
Then Intermediate,Advanced 1, Advanced 2 & Solo Seal (there are a couple of in between optional exams too.

dancestomyowntune · 05/11/2014 13:27

Chance to Dance is an amazing weekend in Bournemouth. It is usually done over two days, with workshops and photographs on the Saturday (usually workshops in musical theatre/jazz/tap for seniors depending on who they can get to teach) and then on the Sunday they have technical rehearsals and a full gala performance. We love it (although didn't attend this year due to a clash with our own school show), especially because unlike festivals it is non-competitive. It's nice to see what other schools are doing without the competitive element and the students love it.

As for exams: RAD offer grades 1-8. At our school children have the option to attend interfoundation classes from around grade4/5 or from about the age of nine. A lot don't start until they are much older tho. My dd wasn't quite nine when she started and it is a lesson thAt prepares the dancers for pointe. From around the age of eleven the girls then start to beg asking for pointe shoes, my dd had them for her eleventh birthday, but she is the exception not the rule. Many girls of 13/14 are just starting to get theirs now, it depends on strength (core and feet and ankles). Also how many classes they attend can play a part in when they are deemed "ready" for pointe. Dd is taking her interfoundation exam next weekend as I have mentioned previously. She will be twelve in January. There is a little pointe work in the exam, but not a great deal.

The vocational exams, as I understand it, go interfoundation (must be eleven and a half to take), intermediate, advanced foundation, advanced 1 and then advanced 2. Then solo seal. I believe they have to have taken these exams to gain teacher qualifications and they are meant for the more serious dancers. Having said that at our school most girls seem to take them!

Our school do not have seperate pointe and pre- pointe classes. I believe in the past they have run them but our principle doesn't feel they are really worth it. All classes are working on technique and new to pointe dancers only dance on pointe for a few minutes at a time to start with anyway.

nonicknameseemsavailable · 05/11/2014 13:36

ah ok - I understand that more now, thanks both of you.

I know others who do the Chance to Dance weekend and enjoy it but it is just something my girls dance school choose not to take part in.

Oakmaiden · 05/11/2014 16:32

Funnily enough my daughter used to dance with Studio One, in Ferndown, whose principal founded the Chance to Dance....

Before we moved to Wales, obviously...

OP posts:
dancestomyowntune · 05/11/2014 17:04

Yes, Studio One have some impressive group numbers! They are very polished, but then we have always got the impression that they spend a LONG time rehearsing (in fact I think they begin rehearsing for chance to dance as soon as one is over!). Our dance school don't do that, they have maybe three or four sessions to choreograph each group! Our dance school don't like to over rehearse! Lol!

We travel quite a distance for Chance to Dance but I think it's worth it. I also think its good to see señiors working with juniors. The first year we did it we didn't really know what to expect and our studios routines stood out as being very "dark" compared to most of the schools. We did a modern routine based on the Mayan prediction of the end of the world and a ballet called the "last night of the world". Not that we are always morbid! Dd was about 8 then and had a ball!

But I digress!

danceteacheruk · 19/03/2015 11:20

First of all, judging your child's dance ability based on festival results... BIG MISTAKE!

Festivals are not a reflection of how good or bad your child is, or how ahead or behind other children they are. Most children need time to gain confidence and experience of doing competitions before it starts to show in their results. My children usually do 2 or 3 festivals before they hit their stride and start medalling. It is a common mistake to think that just because your child goes to a good school, that they should go into their first competition and come away with the gold... but that really doesn't happen that often, trust me!

And don't forget that it's the adjudicator's job to highlight technical faults. That is not a reflection on the dance teacher either, it's simply a case of, on that day, at that time, the adjudicator spotted that technical fault. As a dance teacher, I quite enjoy getting the report sheets back from festivals, because 9 times out of 10, they spot the exact same faults that I have to correct EVERY SINGLE LESSON!!! We can teach it, but sometimes the kids only listen properly when it comes from an adjudicator.

On the subject of double schooling, it is an absolute no no for nearly every dance teacher I know. Unless you are talking about associate classes etc, it's just not the done thing. Some teachers will allow a child to go to a class elsewhere if it's something they don't offer (I have one girl who goes elsewhere for ballroom), but as a general rule, most dance teachers don't allow it. Unfortunately, it's happening more and more nowadays, usually behind the teachers back, which is incredibly insulting. I recently discovered on of my Grade 3 ballet students was also attending a Grade 4 class at another school. The mother said it was because she thought her daughter "needs to be pushed more". It turned out that being pushed more meant my carefully taught, 9 year old, 100% Distinction student being put en pointe way before she was technically ready for it. I didn't give the mother a choice... she was GONE... shame to lose a good kid, but there's always another one will come along to fill up the gap.

Now please don't take this as a lecture, BUT, I wish parents nowadays would just STOP looking sideways at other peoples children, and getting jealous over insignificant things. Every child is different and progresses at a different pace. Could your child be pushed on a little more, perhaps, but is that fair on the rest of the class who need more time to develop? NO! Is it going to harm your child to go a little slower? NO! And if the teacher is good and thinks your child needs pushing more, they will make it happen, but remember, that usually means private lessons that most parents don't like having to pay for. But dance teachers are not superhuman, we only have so many hours in the week, so cut us some slack PLEASE!!!

taxi4ballet · 21/03/2015 09:26

danceteacheruk while I agree with much of what you are saying, I would also like to add that sometimes parental instinct is right!

If I had unquestioningly accepted the guidance and advice of dd's original dance teacher, then dd would not be where she is today. When I would ask whether dd might be good enough to pursue dance as a career I was always told "It's early days", "she's not ready to do more advanced work yet", "it's too soon to tell", "her technique is good, but she's just not performing", "no, it takes at least two years to learn each vocational grade" and so on.

We were strongly advised not to do any workshops, courses or associates because "I have my methods and I don't like people interfering with my training", "I don't like associate programmes, they are too expensive and not really worth it - she's getting all she needs here", "Oh I never do competitions, it takes too much time away from syllabus work".

Had I ignored my gut feelings, then dd would not be on two associate programmes, she'd never have done any summer schools, never been awarded scholarships with EYB, would not have passed her Adv 1 with distinction aged 14 and then passed Adv 2 with a high merit just 9 months later in the first term she was eligible to take it, and she certainly wouldn't now be in the position of being able to choose between several offers of full-time vocational training in September.

Looking back, I am so glad that I DID question what I was being told...

So, mums (and dads) - sometimes you will be proved right in the end!!!

haerth · 21/03/2015 10:47

I agree, taxi. Sometimes instincts are correct. One of our dance teachers, who we tried to seek reluctant permission from to attend workshops, was against dance classes and styles elsewhere that she didn't even offer or teach.

danceteacheruk · 21/03/2015 17:50

Just to point out, nowhere in my post did I question or cast any doubt on parental instinct. I answered the original posters question, that is all. I completely agree that if a parent does not feel their child is receiving the training they need, then absolutely they should look elsewhere. One dance school is not going to suit every child that comes through the door and parental instinct is important on that score.

However I, and most of my dance teacher friends, would stand by the belief that double schooling is not on. It is often causes problems, and is highly disrespectful unless it's with the full support of both dance teachers. The bottom line is, if you are not happy with the dance school your child is at and they are refusing to give more opportunities when asked (within reason), then make a clean break and go elsewhere.

taxi4ballet · 21/03/2015 19:12

The thing is though, you need to find the 'elsewhere' first, don't you? And that would necessarily involve trial lessons at another school, perhaps for a number of weeks, before deciding whether it is the right move or not.

We the parents are the paying customers at the end of the day, and we have to put the needs of our children first - not the sensibilities of the person taking our money. When it comes to double schooling, vast numbers of young dancers will go to more than one dance school, and there are many enlightened teachers out there who accept the situation gracefully and don't take it as an implied insult.

I don't know about other parents, but with all due respect, I am not all that keen on paying for the privilege of being dictated to by someone who then takes umbrage when we don't do as we are told.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

danceteacheruk · 23/03/2015 20:24

Yes taxi4ballet, there are a lot of parents out there who lack respect and decency when it comes to moving dance schools. Fortunately, they remain in the minority.

Perhaps you would be more understanding if, as I have, you'd ever had to give evidence in court, supporting a dance teacher who was wrongly being accused of causing an injury. The child in question had got a fractured arm, which the parents blamed on her regular dance teacher. It was only through sheer luck that I knew the child had tried out an acro class at another dance school when the injury occured. Where it not for that, a friend of mine who is an outstanding teacher and a consummate professional, could have had her reputation absolutely ruined!

Now you may think this was just an isolated case, but believe me, things like this are happening more and more often. Dance teaching is a difficult industry at the best of times, now even more so, especially with the number of inexperienced and unqualified dance teachers popping up all over the place.

RESPONSIBLE dance teachers have rules to protect the interests and welfare of their students, as well as their own reputations. The vast majority of parents have no professional knowledge of dancing and so rely on the expertise of the teacher to guide their child in the right way. Knowing what other dancing the child is doing, if any, is important!

The student I threw out of my school for attending pointe classes at another dance school... you may call it telling the paying customer what to do... I call it protecting my own back and not wanting to be involved with a child whose physical well being, is being put at risk. I talked to the parent, I gave her the benefit of my knowledge and advice, then I gave her a choice. She made her choice and is now dancing elsewhere, cut and dry, no hard feelings.

alinacj · 23/03/2015 21:02

You'd hate me. We triple school... with permission Grin But we have particular reasons for doing this.

alinacj · 23/03/2015 21:05

I know lots of people whose child attend two dance schools, sometimes with teachers knowledge, sometimes not. It does seem to be more commonplace nowadays. I wonder why. I know of one person who was asked to leave on discovery of double schooling, no choice offered.

taxi4ballet · 23/03/2015 22:56

There are a lot of parents out there who lack respect and decency when it comes to moving dance schools.

Really?

danceteacheruk · 24/03/2015 12:26

As I said alinacj, I have no objection to double schooling when it's with the full knowledge and agreement of the teachers. That way everyone knows the score and can plan their teaching accordingly.

And yes taxi4ballet, that's what I said, no need to repeat it in bold. And just to point out, you forgot to add... "Fortunately, they remain in the minority."