Music career?

[titchy]

Hoping some pro or semi pro music folk can advise....

Dd plays an instrument (fairly common orchestral one) pretty well, but she is by no means gifted. She enjoys it and is always happy to practice, plays in groups etc. she is likely to do grade 8 in the summer of year 11 (that'll be a nice stressful term.....)

Is a career as a musician possible with that level of ability? She is also quite academic. (maths and science particularly).

She is only a teen so there is no rush to decide on future career obviously - however if (and it's a big if of course) a music career is possible does she need piano? In which case I need to get her some lessons ASAP! Hence me asking....

Thanks!

Hi titchy

What sort of career do you have in mind? I know quite remarkable string players (performing solo in top venues worldwide) who do not play piano.

If Dd wants to aim at teaching, I'd say piano is very important - to be able to accompany her little pupils. Most higher ed. music courses require piano as second instrument.

Don't forget how competitive the profession is - if you really don't think she is gifted, chances are she will find it hard to make it.

But, piano lessons is always a good idea IMO as long as she is keen herself.

Piano is extremely useful- even just up to grade 3/4, it helps a lot with A level music harmony papers.

Most of my peers at music college had grade 8 on their main instrument much earlier than year 11 and had made music the main focus from an early age. A university (as opposed to mus college) music degree wouldn't necessarily involve performance and would be unlikely to lead to a performance/ orchestral career, because to be honest those jobs almost exclusively go to music college graduates. Woodwind is more competitive than many instruments as good woodwind players are everywhere and orchestras only need very few.

But... there are many areas of work in the music industry. What area is she interested in? Would she like to teach?

If she really wants to play try to get her a consultation lesson with a teacher at one of the junior colleges in London to ask for advice. Many of the teachers can be contacted privately through their own websites. If not the director will very likely give you advice or an interview.

www.trinitylaban.ac.uk/junior-trinity.aspx

A career is possible but I don't think she'll be very well off. Lots of kids have grade 8 in 2-3 instruments if not before. Many conservatoires expect a minimum of grade 5 piano.

I should have said woodwind is even more competitive.

and music is probably the worst paid job ever for the number of hours of training/ practice/ work over a lifetime.

There are plenty of careers in music that don't involve playing, if you think that she's not really brilliant enough for a professional performing career - the music industry is the UK's second or third biggest export. If she loves music but is not sure she's good enough to perform she should consider reading music at university (as opposed to music college) - then she can mix performance with learning lots of other skills.

But most good music departments require Grade 5 piano, so piano lessons I would say are a must.

Oh - and I agree totally with MrsSweetPotato - professional performers are paid rubbish money. But other careers in music (and not just teaching) can be very interesting and well paid (A&R for a big record company, management, etc)

I'd say keyboard skills are pretty much essential if you're looking to study music beyond "the grades" and at university. My B.Mus course had an aural component where you had to have keyboard skills to be able to do it.

It's also useful to be able to read both clefs (assuming she only reads one at the moment).

You can gain a music degree and head off in other directions too - I ended up working for a law firm rather than being a performer. After having children I now teach privately.

Thanks this is really useful stuff! I suspected a performing career wasn't really on the cards. Interesting to know decent music degrees usually need g5 piano - will get those sorted.

Other than teaching and record company stuff (doesn't every teen say they want to work for a record co?) any other music-related ideas?

Although she's bright music is about the only thing she doesn't find boring (!) so as it seems fairly specialised I want to make sure she at least has some ideas of what she needs (eg piano, music degree) so she doesn't fall at the first hurdle

How about sound engineer?

I think performers usually know they want to perform by age 16. I know at that age I was planning my route to music college.
Piano ALWAYS a good one to do.

Music therapy?
Stage management?

You mention that DC is in Year 11 and might be taking Grade 8 in the summer. Well, my DS is in Year 7 and he'll be taking Grade 8 sometime next year and he isn't even a serious musician.

I'm not stealth boasting (honest guvna). I'm just making the point that people who take up music careers are usual at a more advanced level at your DD's age.

My DP is a professional musician and he can't read music, never studied it formally and has never taken a music exam in his life. He only started doing it seriously during uni (whilst studying something completely unrelated). Just for an alternative perspective.

DP is a professional musician AND he can't read music?? Care to expand on the 'professional musician bit'? :)

A lot of pop and jazz musicians play by ear. It's amazing to watch.

She could always study a music degree and there are courses at most uni's for music but as long as she knows that they are not in the same league as Oxbridge or the Conservatoires..

I hope this "professional musician" is not teaching children as there is so much he won't know and understand - theory for one, which is vitally important. If he is bashing out notes on a drum or guitar then he may be a professional musician but there are musicians and then there are MUSICIANS!

@pushedtotheedge Chris Orton - who won the Moeck recorder prize a couple of years ago - didn't even take up the recorder till he was 15. It is a complete fallacy that unless you have passed grade 8 in Y7 you don't stand a chance of going to a conservatoire.

@pushedtotheedge In addition, I know several profession musicians and composers. When I say professional, I mean people who earn a very good living. Most of them didn't do any grade exams (although some of them did). The one who is stone cold FAMOUS not only didn't do grades, he also didn't study music when we were at university (he did English).

We're talking about an orchestral instrument player on this thread though.

There are lots of jobs on the music admin / management side which need an interest in and knowledge of music, but don't involve performing. Assuming we're talking about classical music, loads of people work for orchestras, artist management companies, music festivals, opera houses, conservatoires etc etc. A music degree at a university would be a good solid basis for any of those jobs, and would make your DD good contacts.

As in all aspects of life, there always exceptions. Yes there are many millionaires who never went to University. Yes there are many comprehensive kids who went onto Oxbridge. And yes there are many successful musicians that didn't go down the traditional route.

But they are the exceptions.

@1805 if that was aimed at me, I relation to my point aout Chris Orton, then you haven't thought it through. Recorder players have less opportunities than orchestral players to 'make it' because there are fewer conservatoires that provide courses, for a start, and British players are at an even bigger disadvantage because the hub of professional recorder playing is in the Netherlands/Germany. My point however was to refute pushedtotheedge's implication that is you didn't have Grade 8 by year 8 you had no chance of ever being good enough, this just isn't true. As I pointed out in my second post I know several professional musicians who went to conservatoires but never did grades AT ALL. This doesn't mean they were below grade 1 standard when they auditioned. It means that they took different paths. Me, I'm an exams all the way sort of person but I know that isn't the only path.

what Bramshott said.

Yes she does need to be able to play an instrument well enough to accompany other players. For example if she became a music therapist.

thetasigmamum - but the recorder is not considered an orchestral instrument.

@pushed in orchestras they may be the exceptions (although the two (famous)) people I know involved with orchestras (and frequently on the telly) both had non traditional routes to doing what they are doing now. Both are in their mid 40s, so took those non traditional routes at a time when that was more unusual. In the non orchestra world though - and most professional musicians do not play in the great symphony orchestras of the world, they play in either smaller ensembles or as soloists, they usually have portmanteau careers where they do all sorts of different projects including recording, performing, teaching - its not that exceptional to not have got grade 8 in year 8.

Incidentally, I did grade 8 in year 7. In my first study instrument. And grade 8 in year 8 (or 'the second year' as we called it in those days). In my second study instrument. Neither of those was piano though. I wasn't a better player than my best friend who went on to the guildhall and to a very successful career as a professional orchestral musician and soloist (and mother) and teacher and animateur, but who didn't get grade 8 (on the same first study instrument) till we were in the 5th year. I just started playing at primary school and she didn't start till she met me, at secondary school.