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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

Music career?

97 replies

titchy · 21/03/2012 18:43

Hoping some pro or semi pro music folk can advise....

Dd plays an instrument (fairly common orchestral one) pretty well, but she is by no means gifted. She enjoys it and is always happy to practice, plays in groups etc. she is likely to do grade 8 in the summer of year 11 (that'll be a nice stressful term.....)

Is a career as a musician possible with that level of ability? She is also quite academic. (maths and science particularly).

She is only a teen so there is no rush to decide on future career obviously - however if (and it's a big if of course) a music career is possible does she need piano? In which case I need to get her some lessons ASAP! Hence me asking....

Thanks!

OP posts:
AgentProvocateur · 22/03/2012 10:19

Thetasigmum, do you mind if I PM you?

thetasigmamum · 22/03/2012 10:25

@pushed I work in the city, although my job involves worldwide travel. It's in one of the 'professions'. I was a professional musician for a short time in the early 90s (as in, I made my living from music) and I now play for fun. Most of my friends from my Cambridge days are involved in either music or associated performing and teaching. I have friends who regularly perform at major concert venues round the world. I have one friend who is an award winning composer. I was the one person in our group who went off to do something boring because I am incredibly risk averse, and after a serious car crash I was scared of performing for some years. Because I didn't want people looking at me...(scars :( ). Your posts in this thread demonstrate that you don't know much about the professional music world, and if you think that a (non oxbridge) degree trumps 5 years of experience in the business world then that's an indicator you don't know much about that either. I can't help it if you are posting things that are factually inaccurate. What conclusion am I supposed to draw from your posts? That you actually do know something about the professional music world and/or the business world and are just choosing to post falsehoods to depress other posters?

thetasigmamum · 22/03/2012 10:26

@agent Do I mind? um....no? Feel free. :)

Original poster
titchy · 22/03/2012 10:31

Oh wow lots more responses!

Bramshott and 1805 - many thanks for the alternative suggestions. I hadn't thought of most of those, only sounds recording which I too thought would be a good match with science.

Clearly she isn't cut out to an orchestral player professionally, but good to remember there are other ways to play other than classical. A music degree is a possibility, but not a conservatoire. Piano lessons are essential!

(As an aside, mainly to Orm, dh's best friend decided he wanted to be a guitar player professionally when he was at university - he is a spectacularly single minded chap and took lesons for two years. He now scratches a living gigging, doing the odd bit of session work and teaching. Doesn't make pots of money but does something he loves. He has no grade exams.)

Incidentally - thea and theta - the easter music course isn't in Surrey is it - in G? DD's going too!

OP posts:
gettingalifenow · 22/03/2012 10:31

OP, have you considered a junior department for your DD? Its basically Saturday school for under 18s at one of the conservatories so is very intensive training and orchestral experience.

If your DD is good enough to pass the audition, then there's the clue - a performing music career is possible. If not, it'll give you an early chance to think differently. (if the performing part of the career is what you are looking for)

At the very least, you should go to some of their open days which will show you the standard that her contemporaries are currently reaching - because they would be her competition for any performing jobs down the line.

At the very least, by now she sould be playing in a county youth orchestra to know how she compares - you may see that actually, she's really brilliant comparatively Nd this is the career for her!

Original poster
titchy · 22/03/2012 10:34

Oooh I used to play a Garklein - haven't heard that word for YEARS! Have to smile at brass and pub association - I remember that from my own youth orchestra days.

OP posts:
thetasigmamum · 22/03/2012 10:39

@titchy I have a violinist friend who is having quite a bit of success at the moment playing with a French jazz/boulvardier band. Her career is about50/50 teaching/performing but the performing 50% would also include not just showing up and playing but also staging and promoting events. There are huge opportunities for people with talent and, I don't know - 'get up and go' (which to a certain extent I lacked when younger). It's not always terribly remunerative unless you strike lucky though, I have to be honest.

The Easter course we are talking about it up north (well, it's 'north' to me, it might be more 'middle' to proper northerners!). It's in a spectacularly inaccessible place for people travelling from the South West, though. A lifetime on motorways or 3 trains. Not good.

Colleger · 22/03/2012 10:47

Gosh, so many posts I couldn't read them all.

Nearly all of the best musicia s don't sit exams but that does not mean they are not well past Diploma level.

The child that one the recorder competition probably had played another instrument first.

Some rare instruments do not need such a high grade to get into conservatoire but I wouldn't rely on this.

Music is a financially perilous career. Even those that have been in the NYO, Chethams, Purcell, most prestigious conservatoires, find it hard to eat. Those that haven't even done this usually end up retraining and doing some teaching on the side.

PushedToTheEdge · 22/03/2012 10:54

Although I have contacts in the musical world I do not profess to be a know it all about the subject in hand.

As for the business world I'm doing 'allright' in the City. However I don't feel a need to wheel out my alma mater and my CV like some people in order to give credence to my opinions :o

thetasigmamum · 22/03/2012 11:02

@pushed you clearly implied I was being fanciful in 'claiming' knowledge of both worlds. I just provided some vague context. And I'm a big fan of credentials. Strange that you wouldn't be, when you're such a fan of telling everyone about the music exams your children have passed and the ages at which they passed them. You can come on here and say what you want, of course. But when you make inaccurate (and boastful) claims designed to distress or disconcert other posters (in this case not just the OP but other posters who found the thread depressing) then don't be surprised if people call you on them.

PushedToTheEdge · 22/03/2012 11:14

I don't do the Supportive Girlfriend routine. The OP asked for an opinion. I gave mine. If she only wants upbeat replies then she should have said so.

As for telling people about the exams my children have passed, I was simply making the point that my kids were more advanced than the OP, at least on paper, and that I didn't consider my DS was good enough to follow a career in music. If you think that is boasting then you have some serious issues to sort out.

thetasigmamum · 22/03/2012 11:18

@pushed Clearly I'm not the one with issues. Grin

PushedToTheEdge · 22/03/2012 11:20

... says the mum who insist on name dropping her musician friends and professional credentials. :o right back at you.

1805 · 22/03/2012 11:21

now now. settle down please.

PushedToTheEdge · 22/03/2012 12:06

Its ok 1805. I'm chilled :)

Sorry for going off topic OP but if sigma wants to take a casual throwaway remark I made about the job market and use it to demonstrate her superior credentials then I'm willing to indulge her.

When I started work in the City many moons ago your typical dealer was true to the stereotype ie. East End/Essex boy with few qualifications but a head for mental maths and a liking for taking risks.

Then the computers took over [cue music from The Terminator] These days computer programs buy and sell shares to other computer programs. You will find that your typical dealer these days holds advanced degrees in maths, financial modelling and the like.

As for the IT side, it is fairly common to find 'old timers' who left school at 16 and worked their way up but these days most major employers insist on degrees. Feel free to read up on how the job market is swamped with clever graduates looking jobs that in a previous generation would have gone to an A level student.

You talk about how you were a 'professional' but you don't say what in. I'm assuming that you don't mean you was an accountant or a lawyer because there 5 years work experience definitely does not trump a degree.

By the sounds of it, your views of the workplace is stuck in a different era.

DeWe · 22/03/2012 12:27

I have a family member who's a (youngish) professional musician. He plays, I think, currently 3 different instruments (including piano, which isn't his main instrument) to beyond grade 8. He also has played probably about another 4-5 to a reasonable standard over the course of his childhood.

It's hard making a living as a professional musician unless you have a lucky break.

mycatsaysach · 22/03/2012 12:33

haven't read all thread so don't know if this helps ds is going to start uni in sept (fingers crossed) for digital music degree - one of his other options was sound engineering but he didn't get offered a place as he needed a science a level.

he had to audition with his own compositions for the course and doesn't play an instrument to any grade although he can pick up and play most things also he doesn't read music.

PushedToTheEdge · 22/03/2012 12:40

mycat - Interesting post. All the other posts have been concentrating on a conventional music career and whether the DS is suited to such a career (and whether 5 years work experience trumps a degree :) )

pianomama · 22/03/2012 12:44

Off the topic slightly - why is it that any discussion related to musical children tends to turn into a mighty unpleasant and personal fight between parents?

The darker side of music - brings the worst in mums.

I think I am guilty myself - just caught myself trying to find faults in other kids playing during music festival where my DC played. Shame on me:)

mycatsaysach · 22/03/2012 12:45

just adding my personal exp

maggiethecat · 22/03/2012 12:51

Now which music course is it that people are referring to? Have been meaning to check out something for the summer for dd.

mousymouseafraidofdogs · 22/03/2012 12:55

my siblings are professional musicians. they are not the most brilliant musicians, but dedicated and very involved.

  • 5+ hours of practicing a day, no holidays (they play brass instruments, though so they need to keep physically fit)
  • to be able to play anything from a sheet no matter what notation and be ready for recordings immediately
  • long long hours (practice in the mornings, concerts in the evenings, concert tours)
  • bugger to get incapacity insurance (is there such a thing in the uk?)
  • money is crap unless you are really really good and have the right connections

on the other hand one sister regularly went on cruise ships as entertainer and had a whale of a time. but again very hard work, long hours.

a second instrument is always good as is another leg to stand on i.e. musicology, teaching, cultural management

maggiethecat · 22/03/2012 12:56

But the thread has been good pianomama. There were some possibilities that I had not even considered for dd. Though she will ultimately decide I will try to guide.
It's also been useful to be reminded that there are many paths to a destination.

StarryEyedMama · 22/03/2012 13:01

Music as a career alone is very hard! It would be wise to help your DD consider things that she can do alongside this i.e teaching etc. I am a professional singer but being a Mum as well, it's very difficult to find jobs that fit around the children and I normally end up being very busy in the summer with weddings and then a few bookings now and then as a session singer, I also teach, run a choir and have another part time job. There are opportunities but it's all about perseverance and seeking every opportunity that you find and marketing yourself well!

BrassMonkeyBaubles · 22/03/2012 13:02

If she does business studies too she could make a nicely paid career as a private music teacher. It's a very rewarding job that fits in with your lifestyle and in later years around family too.
Playing piano also will be a real help as it helps to be able to play piano accompaniments to pupils exam pieces.
She could also work as a peripatetic music teacher for an LEA.
Then theres musicians required to work on cruise ships and theatre bands....