never being picked for any team / low self regard

[lins2]

Why do sports teachers fail to see the damage done to the kids that never get picked? My son will find out today that yet again he's not picked and the usual suspects will trot off, win their match, come back with medals and be congratulated in assembly as they always are. The others will have to sit there and clap while feeling they've failed again. Just not good enough. It's a hard lesson at 8/9 isn't it? I'm told it's life and life is tough. Well we all know that - but does the crap have to start at primary school? My son is dyspraxic and has made such huge progress. Can they not pick him just once?
They're so heartless. They only care about winning and all the other things they say are empty and meaningless.

Any advice? This is my first visit to Mumsnet - I just want to go get him and give him a cuddle.

My DS is the kid that always gets picked whether it is for sports, G&T, music etc but I can understand your pain.

He is Year 7 now but his headmaster at his primary school is your kind of HM. When the PTA decided to put on a talent show he wanted there to be no 1st, 2nd or 3rd, just kids having fun, but he got voted down by the parent governors.

What I am trying to say that often it is other parents that are the ones responsible as opposed to the HM or school.

I was recently looking at the video of the minutes leading up to my DS being announced the eventual winner and I saw the excitement and then deflation on the kids that didn't place. They of course put on a brave face when they congratulated DS which made me feel even worse.

IMO competition in schools is good but I don't doubt that my opinion would be different if my DS was the kid that never got picked.

lins2 - I was your son. I was always picked last for sports at school and whoever got me on their team would moan 'oh do I have to have Patti again? I had to have her on my team last week'.

It totally put me off sports and I didn't bother to even try, just stood and watched the hockey ball bounce past (after all, if you don't want me in your team, why would I make an effort?)

Unfortunately, many PE teachers are very competitive and they want to win at all costs so actively encourage this kind of behaviour but I think it's really wrong. :(

Can you speak to the school about having a 2nd team or something (no idea what sport you're talking about)

Good idea Patti. Our old primary had a B team that played other school's B team just fun as opposed to having a winner and a loser.

Thanks for your honesty PushyDad - you're right about the attitudes of other parents. My son's 'best friend' has now 'moved on' and only plays with the A team boys. Double bad whammy for my son. His parents just shrug and say that's life.

I have tried to chat about this with the sports teachers and the HM - I have prefaced every conversation with my acceptance that some kids are better at sport than others etc etc etc, and that life is about competition etc etc, and then to ask them if they are aware that kids dry themselves to sleep over this stuff? That brave face quickly dissolves at home..
I agree that competition in schools is inevitable and probably a good thing but does it have to start so young? My son is a July baby so young in the year. It is no coincidence that the sports teams are full of Sept/Oct boys.

Is it simply that the sports teachers were always good at sports, always picked and therefore simply have no idea?
Thanks for your time though.

Sorry that should say 'Cry' not dry!

I think fully competitive sport is the norm in secondary schools.

The problem here is not so much about picking the A team on merit, but on what what opportunities there are for non-A team players (the majority of children in the year) and in how fixture results are described to the wider school population, especially in comparison to other achievements.

I think having more than one team available for fixtures is good. Can this be encouraged in your school? For example, fully selected A&B team, and then a C&D team through which any pupil can be rotated? (How many pupils in the year? Even 4 tasks might cover less than half).

And then what other achievements are applauded in assemblies? Are there Awrds for art, music, drama, academic achievement? DofE awards? Competition winners? Effort certificates? Good citizenship certificates? If there is a good range of things celebrated, it is both good for the life of the school in rewarding a diverse range of good performance, and good for individual pupils as it maximises the chances of their individual strengths being publicly recognised.

Hi Patti
It's football - and yes they do have a B team which he occasionally makes as sub. He plays for his local team and is their leading goal scorer! Despite this he has no confidence and yes he has exactly the same experiences you had, lots of comments like "Oh no, not him" or just the dreaded one of letting the 2 captains pick the teams and always being the one left. Personally I think the sports teachers who continue that particular practice should be especially ashamed. It's just lazy and spiteful.
Thanks for your help.

Edith - the OP's DS isn't in secondary school, he's only 8. But agree that other achievements should also be celebrated in assembly, not just sporting ones.

I agree with you lins2 that they shouldn't always pick the 'best' children to be team captains nor that they be allowed to pick the teams. That will always result in the less able children sitting on the sidelines.

EW - thank you for your comments. I think the school would say it is doing most of what you rightly identify as good practice. In reality however it is the same children who achieve across the board at our school. They have the most housepoints so get their certificates first, they win more medals out of school for their sporting endeavours so come up in assembly more..and so it goes on. These kids in our school are amazingly confident and able and are brimming with energy and enthusiasm for life. Not really surprising as each day if filled with positive reinforcement for them. Not so for my son, although we do our best at home.

Is it any wonder people are put off sport at an early age? THe Govt should look at sports teachers..........

Sorry - I somehow muddled up the second post (about year 7) with OP.

Patti, sorry he's 9 already. I should say I have another son who is picked for every thing, great at all sports, strong academically etc etc so I see it from both sides.

Having just walked the dog I've come back determined to help him find something he can do which makes him feel good about himself.

Are we allowed to swear on Mumsnet?? Want to tell them all to sod off!

"Are we allowed to swear on Mumsnet??"

It's more than allowed - indeed you'd be forgiven for thinking it compulsory.

Edith I love that! I think you're probably very wise!
I will do my best for my lovely son - he is such a good guy in every sense. So painful to watch him sometimes.
Thanks

Whilst I don't condone EVER shouting at a teacher, no matter what the provocation, I can't tell you how satisfying it is to have told my DS's sports teacher just how he is failing the children at our school. A forthright and frank exchange of views - followed by a trip to the HM to inform him of matters.

Not ideal - but really refreshing. Sod them. I sent a cheerful, enthusiasticm confident little 5 year old to that school. They have turned him into a withdrawn, unhappy, anxious 9 year old through their relentlessly competitive sports police. They don't deserve him.
Just thought I would update you. Am looking for new school asap.

AAgh...typos. That should say 'sports policy'!

I'm really sorry that it has come to that :( Your poor boy and poor you although I'm glad you managed to say your piece - let's hope it makes them think.

I suspect I may be where you are in a few years' time - DS seems to have inherited my total lack of ball/eye/hand/foot co-ordination

I was the last to be picked for any team too.

(I know nothing about dyspraxia so I apologise if this not relevant) Could he be gently steered towards something like judo where he can take in certificates for celebration assemblies? Also cricket at this age seems to be everyone gets a turn at batting, bowling & fielding (the kid who is good at all three at 9 is rare?) also it is a team sport but you are not reliant on others to pass to you.

Don't apologise for not knowing about dyspraxia - I don't think many of us are aware of these things until we are faced with it. It's all about co-ordination really, with additional difficulties eg. emotional immaturity, messy eating, can't ride a bike yet, difficulties dressing etc etc. All to often put down to boys being untidy / slow / messing about but often teachers fail to spot classic signs and just punish the children. Shouldn't just say boys as it affects both boys and girls.
We have tried all sports and DS loves them all except rugby. He is good at cricket but ..guess what...just not good enough to represent his precious school. So, not good enough there either. It is a message that is repeated across the board. At our school it is REALLY the case that the same boys are picked for EVERY team. I am not just saying it.

I am an OT so have a good idea how to manage and help those with dyspraxia. It's not rocket science. Am just DISMAYED that teachers can become head of department / even HM with NO understanding at all of what is a very common problem.

Patti - I'd say just be careful where your DS goes to school. No school is perfect but as I have found out, ours takes some beating for cruelty. It may not bother your DS that he isn't as fast / co-ordinated as some others? He may be mature enough to deal with competitive sport - I really hope that is the case for him and you! My son can't deal with it however...which is why this is such a problem for us and why we are looking for another school.

Love the idea about judo though....am going to look into that as hadn't thought about it. Thanks noexcuses.

How about swimming - and then he would have an advantage if his secondary school has a water polo team. By memory, there was little overlap between the rubgy / cricket boys and the water polo team at my school. My own suspicion is that the rugby boys would have sunk . They had nicknames like "The Wall" for a reason! One other thought - if he's good at football out of school, maybe take a video and show the sports teacher what he's missing / failing to encourage! Sometimes teachers don't realise if a kid isn't pushing themselves forward. Good luck - you have my sympathy and it can be pretty rotten.

lins - I am a bit worried as the junior school which is loosely linked to DS's infant school is 'excellent for sports' and if that is where their focus is then he is going to flounder.

My nephew is dyspraxic and it is a really hard condition for other people (even teachers!) to understand/make allowances for so you have my sympathies. I hope you find him a school that celebrates his skills and who he is as an individual :)

Thanks ohmygosh and Patti. Since I first posted I had a frank and forthright (as DH would say) exchange with the sports teacher. Not pretty but the man is a log. He is simply doesn't understand. Sports teachers are a breed apart. What is said about everybody having a chance to represent the school in A,B, C, and D teams if rubbish. The actual message received by 8/9 year olds is that they're not good enough. That's it - nothing else. That's a crap message to get from a teacher when you're 8.
Patti - be very careful about your choice of senior school IF your son is likely to become anxious about his abilities. Some boys define themselves and their peers by their sporting prowess, even at this age, and if the school separates them in teams it can't do anything but undermine their confidence. Having said that your DS may not be like that and he may be mature enough to shrug it off. Or he may thrive on the competitiveness of it all. SOme do. However, my DS is increasingly anxious and has very low confidence. ALL brought on by the school's sport system.

I met with the HM and explained my frustrations and the adverse affect on my DS. Like talking to a wall. Simply unable to understand my point.

I'm done with arguing. Have told DS that whilst he has to respect his teachers at school it's ok not to at home if he is feeling cross.

DS said "Mum, is there a word for a grownup who really annoys you?"
Humph - REALLY wanted to expand his vocab!!

Op, what sort of school is it, in terms of atmosphere and HT?

My 9 year old goes to private school now (started September), and it was a bit of a rude awakening from the "it is all about taking part" ethos of the village CoE primary, to "you are not good enough to be picked" at the new school.

Reality is that he has been put in the B team, but he is quite pleased to be chosen, at all. When the A team goalie broke his leg, DS was given a chance to replace him in the A team. He did o.k.-ish. He has his first rugby match this week (B team) and is excited (I am scared, it is contact rugby). The sports teacher tries to give everyone a chance at least once, and is also very approachable and sympathetic (it was one of the things I liked about the school). Could you approach your teacher?

Anyway, I felt worried about all this, but interestingly DS is very philosophical. he says the other boys are just better, and he is good at other things (like karate, which he does outside school). I am more upset about him being left on the bench than he is. So I have decided to "let it go" and leave my anxious mum feelings at home.

So I think you hit the nail on the head that sport has an influence on self esteem, but it doesn't have to be in school. We do a few activities outside school. Would that be an idea? DS seems to get lots of self esteem from his Sensei at karate, and it is something he is good at. Better than team ball sports. Maybe try judo, karate, tennis or climbing?

also bear in mind, your DS will not be the only one, it should be about half the class... And all the A-team do sport non-stop at the weekend as well, so no wonder they are better, fair do's really...

just read whole thread, you HAVE spoken to your teacher.

Anyway, my advice to try martial arts still stands. (karate has less contact than judo, is more about sequences of movements (kata's) and control. It is quite elegant really, somehow.). If you live in a village or town, there are often classes in the village hall (ours cost 4 pounds a lesson)

Chandon - I'm glad your DS is philosophical about it. If that were the case here I wouldn't be posting. My point is that alot of children aren't able to be so pragmatic at such a young age and it's a crap age to get negative messages about something that's supposed to be fun.

I'm afraid your last sentence is frustrating to read. You're right - the A team do sport all weekend and the school basks in the reflected glory on the pitch during inter-school matches. It is lazy teaching. Anyone can teach the best - it's what you do for the others that matters.

Other sports? Well DS is dyspraxic so will have difficulties with some you mention but somebody else suggested Judo so have found a club and we are visiting this weekend.

Some children simply aren't 'good' in an obvious way - they are average which is fine. They don't need their noses rubbing in it by callous block-headed sports teachers.

I think Judo is a good plan. My DD (5) does it & loves it, and so do friend's sons, and we all think it has improved their confidence in the hurly burly of playground life, running round playing football and tag games at break etc. DD is no longer phased when someone "tackles" her in the playground. I hope he enjoys it - and they look very cute doing successive roly polys down the mat.