Beginner runner - knee pain!!

[daisychain124]

I started the Runna ‘new to running’ 5k plan a couple of months ago - got as far as week 9. I have always hated exercise and struggled to find anything I could get on with. I have lost 40lbs over the past couple of years through mostly diet only and long dog walks, but wanted to find something extra to do to build my fitness up more. It’s been important for me to find an activity which isn’t going to cost me £££ to start and something where I can fit it in my hour lunch break.

Surprisingly I have got on extremely well with running and I am very pleased. I don’t ‘love’ it but I definitely feel better for it and it’s been fairly enjoyable. I run down the canal path so not solid tarmac and it’s very flat.

I started with a bit of knee pain when I first started but it subsided after a few weeks so I assumed it was just my body getting used to it. A couple of weeks ago I ran a different route in the local park which had some very small hills and had to stop towards the end of my run as my right knee was killing. I have put 2 and 2 together and think it’s possibly the non-flat route which has aggravated it? I do a good warm up before running and always stretch afterwards.

I have done some research and found that I need to do some exercises to build up the muscles to support my knee joint. I rested for a few days and then did some exercises and it made my knee feel 10x worse and now I’ve been in pain for about a week. It tends to feel worse when I am sitting for long periods of time. It felt better last Wednesday so I tried to do another run but had to stop after about half a km.

I’m really not sure what to do. My knee does feel a bit better again at the moment but still not ‘right’ so I’m reluctant to try the exercises again and risk what happened last time. Can anyone advise what would be the best thing to do? I am gutted as I should be 2 weeks off my final 5km run now so I feel really behind and don’t want to lose my progress.

Just to add - I am absolutely skint so no funds for a physio or to spend on fancy new trainers. I do have a decent pair of trainers but haven’t done gait analysis. I did read it wasn’t completely necessary unless you’re running longer distances than my very short beginner runs so I’m hoping I can get away with not having to fork out for new trainers for a while yet…

Has anyone dealt with this before and got any advice?

I used to get this, then discovered I needed to massage the long muscles that run on the side of the leg, thigh to knee either side of the knee and knee to calf again either side of the knee. If you can buy a massage gun I highly recommend!

it might be slightly tender to begin with but keep with it and it hopefully will improve and not be so sore when massaging

I'd bet it's the shoes. What type of trainers are you running in? You don't have to spend a fortune, but unsuitable shoes are likely to cause injuries.

@BarbarianBabs ooh we do have a massage gun actually! DH is a cyclist and uses it but I’ve never had a go on it. Thank you!

@evilharpy They are actual running trainers and I chose them because they had excellent reviews, but I guess I don’t know if I have anything weird going on and could do with a specific type of shoe? These are the ones I have - https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/adi18482/adidas-supernova-rise-2-women's-running-shoes

Have you checked if your GP surgery has a first contact physiotherapist that you can book an appointment with? Alot of surgeries do now.

Supernovas are meant to be a good shoe, but they are a neutral shoe I think. If you overpronate or are flat footed (and hypermobile!) like me you might need a stability shoe. Reading the blurb it seems to suggest that they are designed for heel strikers, and if you're a midfoot striker that might also be a factor.

I know it's a lot of initial outlay but a gait analysis could save you injuries and money in the longer term, as you would avoid buying multiple pairs of cheaper shoes that don't suit you. You would only ever need to do it once and then just buy subsequent shoes online for cheaper.

When I first started running I bought a pair of trainers from Sports Direct, I think they were Reebok. As soon as I got to 5k I started suffering with shin splints and knee pain. Swapping to Sauconys (as recommended by Runners Need at a gait analysis appointment) cured both instantly.

Maybe you could ask for it as a birthday present or similar, or a voucher towards it?

This. I need specific running shoes as I over pronate which puts additional stress on the knees. Lots of brands sell running shoes to account for this, mine are asics.

Thanks @evilharpy@RudolphTheReindeer maybe I just need to suck it up and do it then. DH thinks I should as he’s spent a lot on his bike recently and it’s made a difference for him comfort-wise. I just feel like we have 10000 other things which we need to prioritise spending money on! And I’m worried that I’ll spend all this money and it won’t make a difference.

What exactly does it involve if you go and have it done? I’ve found a running shop in a nearby town which has very good reviews.

Agreeing with it probably being the shoes. I have flat arches and were support shoes with custom orthotics. If I walk any distance in shoes that don’t have enough support in them my knees ache!
get someone to film you running in them from all angles, or on a treadmill if you have access
to one, and look at how your feet land and your knees and feet are rolling inwards.

They just chuck you on a treadmill and it works it all out. There's another method you can do at home where you stand on brown paper with damp feet. https://www.runnersblueprint.com/signs-your-shoes-are-failing-your-overpronation-and-what-to-do-about-it/

If you buy the trainers online, ASICS for example, let you filter for over/under pronation/neutral shoes. I think I got mine from the asics outlet shop as I'm not bothered there about having the latest styles. I think I paid around £60.

I had so much shin, knee, ankle etc pain, and ended up getting custom orthotics, which cost a lot, but made a big difference. I used Ennertor, which also do off-the-shelf ones that would be worth a try to start with - even those ones made some difference to me.

I also had to wear a knee support on each knee - the Bauerfiend ones are highly rated, but also highly expensive, but I found that the cheap copy ones from amazon seemed to do just as good a job once my original expensive ones wore out. (this kind of thing: knee brace)

Make sure you warm up properly, that makes a real difference. It will likely be a weakness in your tendons rather than joints. Look up IT band syndrome, this is very common and there are exercises that can help you strengthen this. In the meantime, I found running with these helped me. https://amzn.eu/d/07Ea1Fyr

Well my advice are the two things you’ve ruled out: checking your trainers, and physiotherapy.

You do need to strengthen the glute and quad muscles. But it’s tricky to advise if you don’t know the cause of the pain.

You could try slow split squats or lunges, and squats. But you really need professional advice.

Agree with getting gait analysis and professionally fitted shoes suitable for your running style. Expect to spend about an hour + and £100+.

They’ll ask you to run on a treadmill and watch how your feet land as you run, and then advise on shoes suited to this, and your foot shape. They may advise on insoles to optimise your foot position. It will be time and money well spent.

Gait analysis is definitely worth it. And even just one physio session to get prescribed the right exercises.
How many times a week are you running? Runna plans can up distance quite aggressively. I got injured recently doing a Runna marathon plan and from further googling it looks like a common issue!

A running shop local to me let's you take trainers back for a refund, within a certain period if you run and dont get on with them!
You do often pay more than deals online but its worth it if trying something new.
Having said that I bought a pair of trainers today, in a running shop that does gait analysis, for £90, which is a pretty good price

knee pain (often) comes from the hip
look up strength exercises that target hips & hip mobility.

wrt shoes - not everone get on with 'supershoes'. I find them really uncomfortable and too bouncy.
go to a shop tgat sells several different brands and try out a few different brands and styles.

I got knee pain from running loads in Covid . I went to physio who could find anything wrong ie damaged. It was only by luck I started stretching and found my inner thigh muscles were really tight. When I’d loosened them up the knee pain went. Long story short, I got some custom insoles in my running shoes as it was the foot instability that was aggravating the thigh muscles and tightening everything up. If I run without insoles the knee issue comes back.

Clam shells

Get a foot assessment and maybe orthotics

I wear Asics and go for the GT1000 or GT2000 because they are suitable if you over pronate. With horses it is essential to have good foot balance, a farrier can see how a horse in front of him moves and any deviation in correct movement or landing pattern needs correction to the shape of the foot or type of shoe. Same for humans. If your foot is out of balance it will have a knock on effect in your limbs as your body over compensates.

Gait analysis is the way forward. My partner who has had both knees replaced has the most dreadful pair of trainers. Thin soles and so weak round the toe box, no support to his feet, they actually make them over pronate dreadfully! He wonders why his knees ache. If I nip out to the garden in them to put the bin out or hang the washing on the line I ache for the rest of the day as my limbs are all thrown out of balance. Its so important to get foot balance right.

I used to run trail marathons and had knee issues. This is what worked for me:

1. Body-weight squats regularly to increase knee muscles

(though this is the long game as it takes agess for knee muscles to develop)

1. Shorten stride length and increase running step cadence.

(The shorter stride length means there is less pressure on your knees but you need to move your legs more quickly to make up the difference.)

I’m going to give you what a lot of people will consider a controversial opinion, but the best way to prevent knee pain is to run in a thin soled, zero drop shoe.

A typical running trainer tends to raise you up at the heel. Conversely, this also tends to encourage a heel strike. The way our bodies are built means that the Achilles tendon compresses when we perform a mid or forefoot strike, contracting like an elastic band as it absorbs the force and redistributing it into forward motion.

Running with a heel strike disrupts this, because instead of the force being absorbed by our tendon it’s instead sent straight up the knee, where it causes damage. Thick, cushioned shoes soften that impact for heel strikers, but all that does is make it harder to notice that you’re doing yourself damage.

The reason I recommend a thin, flat soled shoe like a plimsole is because it’s physically impossible to run with bad form - it’s literally agony. You have to run properly or you’ll be crawling home. It makes you very conscious of what you’re getting wrong and you get immediate physical feedback about it. You should never push through the pain with a thin soled shoe, but it can really help you figure out what you’re doing wrong if you don’t have someone to spot you all the time.

If you’ve injured yourself the best thing is rest (it can take up to six weeks to heal!) and gentle strengthening exercises, but it’s something to consider for future. You can buy all manner of fancy (and expensive) “barefoot” shoes but you can get a pair of cheap plimsoles for next to nothing and they’ll do you just fine.

I’m struggling to dig out the link, but one study famously found that the only correlation between injuries caused and price was that the more you pay for your shoe, the more likely you are to suffer injuries. At best, even the fancy running brands fail to conclusively prove that their shoes prevent injuries. The best possible way to prevent it is by having really good running form.

Good luck, and hope you manage to get back out there again soon!

That's really interesting @Imbrocator, I'd be keen to see that study! Not sure I'd dare try it, but imagine it was the miracle cure?! Cheaper than trying several expensive pairs of shoes (I've gone through all the nike carbon "flys" in pursuit of a good race shoe- each one caused a different type of agony and expense!) Do you use plimsolls?

And @daisychain124 - someone upthread mentioned ITB - I was going to say the same. I had bad knee pain post-marathon last year, to the point where even sitting was painful, and it was my ITB in the end. Glute strengthening exercises help.

Also, welcome, you'll see home much runners love talking about their injuries!!

Thanks all this has been really helpful! I’ve been convinced to go and do gait analysis and go from there. Hopefully it will make a difference but I’ll also explore other options if not. Definitely need to do some strength training as I am such a weakling and have absolutely no muscle whatsoever!!

I have found the progression of the Runna plan not too bad actually. The increases have felt steady to me so far but I’ve read others saying they have found they jump too quickly in distance. I am still amazed that I’ve gone from struggling to run for 60 seconds in the first week to being able to run 2k continuously so far. I’ve spent the past 35 years telling myself I was not built to run!

running is the WORST thing to do for your joints and especially knees and if you want to permanently disable yourself and end up with lifelong issues carry on running but if not stop now! Power walking is great for working everything and doesn’t have the knock on effect to your knees running does

Totally agree as I can't run in cushioned shoes as they hurt my knees.
I do underpronate but I'm natural heel to toe runner, so for me the flatter the shoe the better.
I don't get any knee pain & in fact running has taken away the creaking in my knees.
I strongly agree with everyone that says get gait analysis done!

The right shoe will stop your knees from hurting & strengthen them as running is great for your bones.
Although doing weights is the most beneficial for your bones the older you get.