I need sympathy and a kick in the bum please (running)

[TaupeRaven]

I'm training for my first marathon and honestly, I'm tired of being tired and hungry!

Actually, I'm not sure I'm tired so much as just at that point of the training where it feels like I've been at it forever and I've still got so far to go. Each week I get my five runs done - including the nemesis long run - and before I know it, it's Monday again, my intensity minutes are back to zero, and I've got another bloody log run haunting me until it gets done on Friday.

Anyone else with running woes? Does it get better? Should I just see if I can find a 5k to couch programme and go back to watching the telly? (I'm fit and capable, I'm just lazy and fed up)

Is it worth dialing back a week to the essentials and drop a couple of runs for recovery?
When's your taper and have you had a rest-week recently?

Perhaps you need a rest week - allow yourself to dial it back once every few weeks to recover properly.

However, I would also ask are you eating enough? If you are hungry all the time probably not! Make sure you are fuelling, particularly your long run - I have found that if I really concentrate on fuelling the long run I feel WAY less wiped out after - I am talking a LOT, like 50g carbs/hr bare minimum, but ideally about 80g/hr. It makes a huge difference - I mix tailwind (often the high carb formulation) and gels as it feel less sicky than gels only.

Five runs a week is too many for marathon training. Recovery is important.

Are you fueling properly before, during and after your run? You shouldn't be feeling this tired if you are fueling properly.

I also agree with a PP, 5 runs a week seems a lot for marathon training. When I did mine I did 2 shorter runs in the week and the long one at a weekend.

Cut back on the runs and check out what you are eating and make sure you are eating properly before and during your long run. This should help with the burnout.

4 runs per week is enough and you should have a deload week every 3 or 4 weeks. It’s important for your body but also your mind, marathon training is hard and knowing a lighter week is coming is really helpful.

Each week I do an easy run (Tues), a ‘speed’ session like intervals (Thurs), my long run (Sat) and an easy run (Sun). I choose to do ‘back to back’ weekend runs

When’s your marathon? If it’s an April one you still have quite a bit of time. You could give yourself a lighter week to recoup your energy.

I also have an April marathon, I’m only very loosely following the plan, like if it fits in with what I want to do then I’ll do it and if not I won’t 😂. Probably not the best attitude. I’m only just returning to my normal amount of miles a week after injury and still building up.

eat plenty, rest if you need to. Long runs can be miserable in this rainy weather. I tend to do most of mine with the running group on a Sunday and the company and chatting really helps the miles go by. This week though I’ll need to do my long runs after work so it’ll be a long wet, dark solo run for me. Not quite as appealing but it’ll be ok.

drop 2 of the runs and replace one of them with general strength training.

eat enough carbs, they are needed for recovery.

Do more things that you enjoy!

Thanks everyone, I always really appreciate any advice. I do have de-load weeks scheduled into my plan (i bloody love those weeks!), but I find I run better and easier if I run frequently. I fell off the wagon mid-November and went from being 100% fit for my January half, to missing it altogether so I'm cautious about trying to maintain it as a habit.

Nutrition is a tricky one. I've previously had weight loss surgery (which I'm delighted with; any restrictions I have ow are off-set by an 11 stone weight loss and the ability to exercise the way I want to), so very small meals mean that I have to work really hard at staying fuelled. I also mentally struggle with 'allowing' myself to have gels on long runs because of the calories, however I do use them because I know it's essential given my already ropey nutrition!

Just to say if you are and experienced and serious runner five or six runs a week is definitely not too much! But they should be a mix of very easy miles as well as your long run and ideally some speed work AND they must absolutely be properly fuelled. Under fuelling is a massive injury risk as well as making you feel crap and limiting your performance!

Also a long run will probably burn something on the order of 1500-2200 for a 2-3hr run. Even at the upper end of fuelling you are probably looking at something like 700-1000kcal i.e. still a huge deficit!

I’m afraid I don’t have that kick up the bum for you, but you totally have my sympathies.

How long have you been training for? Any more than 14-16 weeks (from already having a reasonable base level) of a training programme and I just couldn’t stay engaged. That that length of time builds in a couple of weeks off.

🏃🏼‍♀️Taking a week off is lush. I always come back better after a week off.
🏃🏼‍♀️Returning to an old route after avoiding it for 5-6 weeks often feels nice because you can feel the progress.
🏃🏼‍♀️Running frequently totally works for some. I totally get the theory of training in a constantly fatigued state and then resting so you smash it when rested. I can’t remember the name of the trainer who has this method! I’m sure the other thing about it is the longest distance you no is nowhere near a marathon length. You just smash it on the day.
🏃🏼‍♀️Parkrun. Do you include a Parkrun? In my training I’ll run, then Parkrun, then run some more to achieve whatever distance I wanted that day.
🏃🏼‍♀️another Parkrun tip… I always go to the Parkrun the week before my event. I’ll start to taper, have a great 5km and continue to taper, carrying the confidence from that great result through the week to the event. Though I’ve hit some PBs the Parkrun AFTER my event (cos I’ve been sat on my arse the whole week after).
🏃🏼‍♀️Recording on Strava? I code my runs. Eg week 1, run two would be 1.B. And week 3, run 3 would be 3.C. I don’t know why I find that so satisfying.
🏃🏼‍♀️Podcasts. I know it’s not very safety conscious, but I find great podcasts so that I can’t wait to run so I can listen to more 😅

Hope you have an understanding family! Mine have never once complained, no matter how many pieces of sportswear are draped on our radiators.

Thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions. I only use MN at work (😆) and have been on annual leave so not updated.

I think the number of runs I'm doing each week is manageable; I definitely feel the benefit of five runs not only in terms of keeping up my fitness, but also in terms of habit-building. I am really doubling down on nutrition though - those sugar cravings are coming form being under nourished, so I've really focussed on what I'm eating, what I could replace with more nutrient dense food (lentil casserole is, it turns out, better than two spoonfuls of Biscoff spread!)

@TakeMeToKernow I've been coding my runs on Strava and it helps with that sense of satisfaction! I also have a chart for my 1000 miles target, and filling that in is equally satisfying.

One of the best things I've done is put a HM race into my plan as a B race. I did my long run at the weekend and realised that I'm strong and fit for the Half in a month's time, and that really boosted my motivation as well as my confidence. Don't get me wrong, I won't be breaking any records but I'm looking good for my modest target time.

I definitely feel the benefit of five runs not only in terms of keeping up my fitness, but also in terms of habit-building

Five runs a week is too many for a beginner marathoner- presuming you're doing your 2x a week strength/cross training as well, you're not having any rest days and are almost guaranteed to get injured when you get into the high mileage weeks.

Or perhaps you're not doing any strength or cross training - which is also a sure path to being injured.

Even more worrying is that you say you're already tired and hungry and you're not even into the long runs yet. Trust me, when you're hitting the 18+ milers you will really be feeling it. My strong advice would be to cut down to 4 runs a week and make sure you're getting your strength work in as well.
Because - and I'm sorry to be the voice of doom - at the moment what you're doing sounds like a recipe for either an ITB flare up or knee problems, as you aren't giving the joints sufficient rest while strengthening the muscles around them.

OP you've come for advice but appears to have ignored it all. You should not be doing 5 runs a week. It's clear that your body is not correctly rested or fuelled and you are just heading towards an injury.

This is totally unwarranted - what have I ignored? There was mixed advice on number of runs per week - 2 different replies supported 5 runs a week while others didn't. I can't take everyone's advice on that, given that it's varying. Sorry that I didn't go with the option you agreed with.

I've been advised to mix up my runs between easy, speed, and long - I'm doing that
I've been advised to strength train twice a week - I do that
A de-load week every 3-4 weeks was suggested - also doing that.
Strength training twice a week? Yep. Two full rest days - also yep (I strength train on my easy run days, and I don't do heavy weights)
Someone said I should eat more carbs - I've taken that on board.

So unless you expect me to have also taken on board the advice from the 13:07 post about cutting down number of runs as my runs get longer, I'm not sure what else you're criticising me for?

I massively appreciate all the time people have taken to give me advice - especially the comprehensive list from @TakeMeToKernow which I've put to good use.

That all sounds really sensible OP; i would just keep it under review as you go. Particularly keep an eye on any little niggles as you don't want them developing into full blown injuries. First marathons are hard enough on the body without doing it on a 5 day a week plan!

Thank you - I will definitely keep an open mind, particularly now that my long runs are starting to go beyond HM into distances I've never done before. It's funny how your sense of perception becomes so skewed - I've got a deload week in my plan this week and my long run is 10k. Never before would I have thought of that as 'only' 10k. 😆