Long runs so hard!

[Starlightstargazer]

Agh! So when do long runs get easier? I’m training for a marathon and each week I’m absolutely floored and it takes me days to recover.
Plan has gone like this:
15 miles, 18 miles, 16 miles, 20 miles, 15 today

20 miles took me 4 hours 13 minutes last weekend and I’d lost the plot by 3 hours. It was a looong last 75 mins. I didn’t even know my name at the end.

im fuelling every 20 minutes although I don’t feel any great burst of energy?! I wear a fluid backpack. I’m already slow as fuck.

still got 2 weekends of long runs (20 and 22 miles).

You mention your fuelling while running, but what’s your diet like the rest of the time? Marathon training is hard, you need to be eating enough calories and drinking enough water to compensate for all that effort. Are you getting enough sleep too?

It’s hard because it’s a long way! It doesn’t really get that much easier either tbh in my experience. You either end up getting faster or just adapting to it being hard. I’ve run over 20 miles probably about 25 times and I still find it hard.

But it’ll feel easier during your marathon as you’ll have tapered before hand so will have fresh legs.

It feels hard because it is a long way and a long time at significant effort. Some are better than others but I hate many long training runs and question my life choices a lot. And I’m on my 5th marathon and have done over a dozen ultramarathons too.

I (mostly) love race day though - the adrenaline of that makes such a difference.

Honestly, as they above - it feels hard cos it is! I reckon I’ve only had a couple beyond 20 that have felt good and I still f’up the marathon, so for me, feeling good or bad in training means nothing! 🤣

What are you having for breakfast? What fuel are you taking on in the run? It’s can be trial and error for a while…

I’m definitely questioning my life choices! It’s like every bit of me is spent. I end up walking quite a bit towards the end as I physically can’t keep going.
My diet isn’t the best and I’m a bigger girl. Will make it my aim to eat better this week.

I'm the same energy wise and been doing it for over a decade,it's blimmin hard so well done you for getting out there!

At the rate I’m going, it’s going to be walking the 26.2 miles. If I come last I might get some sympathy donations for the charity 😂 🤪.

Im using those Kendal mint cakes and torq gels but can’t say I’m feeling a great boost!

Am Hobbling round with back spasms and hip flexor pain, quad pain, knee pain! I’m so sore I can’t even stretch!

The hardest thing about doing a marathon is training. I've done a few and a couple of ultras. Nutrition wise, I switched to real foods rather than gels etc. I eat salted boiled potatoes, mini cheddars and Percy Pigs on a long training run. Hydration is super important as is recovery. If you are very tired taking a day or 2 off will serve you well, as will a cut back week. Walking whilst training is a common strategy, it helps with recovery. You might find in the race after a taper, with the adrenaline and the other people things seem a bit easier.

There's definitely diminishing returns spending so long on your feet on long runs, unless you're a speedy runner who can do 20 miles in 3 hours.

It's really taxing on your body. I've done it in the past but the wear and tear just isn't worth it for me any more.

I do 2-3 hours or so on a Saturday and another 90 mins or so Sunday. So I've got the tired legs on Sunday but I'm not totally broken.

Long runs are hard OP but if they're taking you that long, and if you're feeling exhausted and broken during training, you need to step down the distance so you make it to the finish line uninjured.

The problem with most marathon training plans, even those ostensibly aimed at beginners or first time marathoners, is that they're based on elite marathoners and then extrapolated down. This means that they have very long runs week on week on week, leaving a huge proportion of people injured before they get to the start line as their musculoskeletal systems simply aren't adapted to cope with it.

There is a huge body of evidence showing that any run over around 3.5 hours does more harm than good as the risk of injury outweighs the training benefit. Which doesn't affect intermediate or elite marathoners as you won't be running much more than 3 hours in any training runs, but for beginners you're going to end up as you are, OP - hobbling to the end and struggling to recover.

I'd therefore really advise the following:

• run to time, not mileage. No more long training runs over 3.5 hours and don't worry about the distance you cover

*don't do two long runs two weeks in a row. Give your body time to fully recover. So presuming you're doing London or Manchester on the 27th, that means a down week next weekend and then your last long run on 5/6 April, before the taper

• Yoga or cross training to keep things moving while not running. Clam shell exercises to strengthen your glutes without risking injury with heavy weights. It's late in the day now but that might help you stave off injury.

You have the long runs in the bank now and you've done really well to get this far. The most important thing in this last fine weeks is not to completely break yourself.

I've done a lot of marathons over the years and speak from a fair bit of experience. Different things work for different people, but when you're so sore you're having back spasms and everything hurts, it is most definitely time to back off. Good luck with the race!

Are you training for London? If so I imagine you're in taper now so take time out and skip the odd short run to rest if you need to. Be happy to walk as when you need to - even early on. Are you topping up your electrolytes as well as your carbs - if not then try out some salt sticks every 40 minutes to an hour (Holland and Barrett sell them). I find that after 18 miles I'm craving savoury rather than sweet and switch my fuel to mini cheddars - carbs and salt.

If its London its too late to change your strategy now but afterwards have a look at the Jeff Galloway run walk method and perhaps try it out. I use it for all long runs as I'm actually faster by taking lots of little walk breaks than running the whole thing.

The 4 hour plus run has definitely left me broken. I took 2 rest days afterwards and ran 3 days plus today’s long run. My legs have been like lead all week.
I think I’ll try how you do it next weekend and see how I get on. Thanks for tip!
Do you think doing split long runs helps when it comes to having to run the distance all at once? If you see what I mean?

Thanks for the tips on real food. Love a Percy Pig! 🐷

saltstix are amazing - I’m a very sweaty runner (lovely aren’t I!) and they’ve made a massive difference - I used to get cramps in legs and feet, feeling ill, the lot. Now it just normal hurts.

the other thing is really recommend is building in walking from the start. I run walk and do intervals which feel right - many people do 1 min run 1 min walk theoughout, but even if you aim to walk through aid stations or every mile, it gives you something to break up the painful monotony. Good luck! The training is the price you pay for race day which is your victory lap!

Over a decade?! That’s great! Well done to you too, although I was hoping it would become easier sooner than 10 years…..!

Based on thus, you’re doing too much.

if you’re overweight & slow, the toll on your body is actually much harder.

How far away is the race? Eating better and just being more active / regular shorter runs but controlling your eating / energy more may actually be better than another long run.

I really appreciate this advice thank you. It is like I can’t recover between long runs so that my in week runs are suffering and I can’t manage more than 3 x 5km (hilly, tempo, intervals) per week then the long run. It’s supposed to be 20 miles this coming weekend and then 22 miles the following. I was going to do just 2 weeks taper as I’ve not been doing a huge mileage each week.Maybe not a great idea!

Sweaty runners unite! I’m dripping with sweat and covered in salt crystals when I run 🏃‍♀️.
Haven’t heard of saltstix. Will defo take a look at those.
Im really looking forward to the actual thing, the crowd support especially. It’s lonely out there for 4+ hours!

It’s London on the 27th April so 5 weeks away. Definitely overweight and slow at 12 minute miles. Will make it my mission to be healthier overall from this week 💪

If you're running so little during the week, your long runs are definitely too long for you. As a rule of thumb, your long run in marathon training shouldn't really be more than half your weekly mileage. Lots of us tip the scales in the big weeks (plus, life gets in the way midweek!) but a long run of 20 miles and then less than 10 miles the rest of the week is going to ruin you.. which is sounds like it is.

If I were you I'd start backing off now. A proper down week next week to recover. Then back on the plan the week after with a long run of 3.5 hrs max on 5/6 April before you start to taper.

Long run of 2 to 2.5 hours the week after that (so 12/13 April weekend) and then a proper two week taper where you dial it right back.
With any luck you can keep up the fitness you've built and recover at the same time, meaning you get to the start line in one piece and without doing yourself any more damage.

You've done brilliantly to get this far, so don't be tempted to stick to a plan that's breaking you and completely injure yourself now, as you wouldn't have time to recover before the race.

I definitely think so - you need the cumulative fatigue as a training stimulus but your body doesn't "know" you haven't run it all in one go.

Splitting it up helps your form not go completely to pot, we've all been there barely able to lift feet up at the end of a long run, upper body hunched over, heavy steps. That in itself is tiring and inefficient.

What you practice on your long runs will be how you run on the day - good and bad! Reinforcing a tired movement pattern over and over will be what you resort to in the race when tiredness sets in, it will feel natural because it's what you've done every time you get to 16/17 miles.

Good luck!

Yes London which is 5 weeks away so 2 long runs left and then taper. I think replacing electrolytes could be important for me as I sweat so much. The Kendal mint cakes say they have electrolytes in but will try the salt sticks too. Hadn’t heard of them before. I crave savoury late on too!

I tried run walk last weekend, with run 1km walk 1 minute and repeat. After about 16 miles it was more like walk 1km run 1 minute 😧.

Thank you. I’m feeling very despondent at the moment! I was doing better with the in week mileage but as the long runs have ramped up, I’ve been too broken to do any more than 5km at a time.
Definitely getting more injured all the time so will follow your good advice

Thank you so much, that gives me hope and also useful to think about reinforcing patterns. Hadn’t thought of it like that before

Thank you so much to everyone for taking the time to reply and offer your advice and tips! Much appreciated!