Longest run (miles) on marathon training plan

[spartanrunnergirl]

Hi all looking for some marathon veterans to advise.

I'm training for my first marathon road race. I do half's and run a lot but have never trained for a marathon.

My running club coach has given me a plan where the longest run in training is 18 miles and that is six weeks before the race. After which the mileage reduce by two miles each week at each long run until race day.

Is this typical? I am feeling a bit anxious that I won't be well prepared and have seen other plans that go to at least 20 miles, and build up to this distance to be nearer the race day.

Thanks

You need to stop thinking in terms of distance and in terms of time on feet, in my experience.
I've done a lot of marathons and now aim to have done two long runs of 3hrs as my "max" long runs in training. For me that's about 21 miles. I'll then have a couple of runs of 2h45 ish and a couple of 2h30 ish.

Personally I also think six weeks out is a bit too far out from the race for your longest run. I like to do a longest run six weeks out, another four weeks out, and taper from there.

I'd be looking at it in the context of what your volume of mileage is overall. If you're running, say, 50+ miles per week regularly, you'd be fine doing some longer runs, but if you're running 30ish miles a week 18 miles in one go would be quite hard on your body.

As PP says, it's also about the amount of time it takes. Ideally you want to be doing your long runs nice and slowly, way slower than you would run on race day. So your longest runs might take you the same amount of time as it would take to run the actual race, or nearly. You don't really want to be out training for longer than you'll be running on race day.

London will be my 5th marathon.
I did 18 miles yesterday
Doing a 20 mile race next Sunday
Will do 20-22 miles each weekend until I start tapering then
3 weeks out - 18 miles
2 weeks out 12-14 miles
1 week out 6-8 miles

I don’t think one 18 mile run and the rest shorter is practicing distance enough. And 6 weeks out for longest run is too long. But it depends on your overall weekly mileage too as pp have said.

The reason to have your longest run planned 6 weeks ahead of the race is in case for some reason you can't do it. In the UK this will likely be weather where it's not safe to be outside e.g. storms for Spring marathons, heat with pollution where you are advised not to exercise outside for Autumn marathons. You will then have 5 weeks and 4 weeks to go to do a long run.

If you do a lot of weekly mileage then like a PP said you can do two long runs 2 weeks apart.

However what you will find is that running longer than half marathon distance relies a lot on your mental resilience. On race day the crowds should help you do the last 6-8 miles you haven't covered on training.

Thank you everyone some good advice here. Totally get the time on feet thing and that I might need to shuffle things a bit based on weather etc. I might put a 20 miler in a couple of weeks after the 18 miler.

I think psychologically it helps if you've never done a marathon to have a few 18-20 mile training runs in the bag beforehand to build confidence.

I don't do that these days and go by time on feet and runs back to back, so ill do 2-3 hours on the Saturday and another 90 mins or so on the Sunday.

But back when I was more of a novice I really found those long long runs helpful. But I would do them every other week and a long run of 10-12 miles in between.

If you're going to commit to the long run idea I think you should aim for 3+ 18-20 milers. You can't substitute that effort and it will pay off on the day mentally.

If there's a 20 mile race a few weeks out of your goal race it's a good idea to practice everything for the real thing. Run a conservative pace until the last 3-4 miles. If you can run that at your goal pace you're bang on target.

I ended up in that situation. I ended up doing my 20mi run now for a mid-April marathon having brought it forwards to avoid a forecast of snow and ice for several days when I should have done it. Lousy timing as it was too soon after racing a HM 5 days earlier, but it was risky leaving it.

I'm glad I did do it then as I was intending on fitting in another 18mi after but DS was struggling with migraines and in and out of school. I did end up fudging a 14mi in after getting him into school and running laps around my neighbourhood in case I had to pick him up (I did a 2 week training cycle alternating long run/ mid-length run weeks as I'd been injured a year before so needed recovery time).

I wouldn't aim to max out at 18mi, 6 weeks ahead (unless there were specific concerns e.g. overuse injury). There's a danger of getting rusty after and going past peak fitness. Psychologically, the good thing about 20 was that on race day, all I needed to to was plough through another 10k after. 8 miles into the unknown is a lot bigger mentally and physically.

Loving this advice and shared experiences thank you!

i disagree about time on feet unless you tailor it for your running pace (and then you're basically working to distance anyway). A 2:45 or 3 training run isn't going to be enough if you're going to be a 5-6hour marathon finisher, but could be too much if you're really fast.
I would always do 2x20mile runs with the aim to get one of those closer to 22 miles. The second one would be 3 weeks before race day then 2 weekends of shorter long runs to taper.

Following as as a seasoned half marathoner going for my first marathon in the autumn. Useful advice above.

There are different schools of thought.

My partner and I are both 3.00-3.10h marathoners and he is also a coach. We have very different strategies.

The JD method tends to only go up to about 18 miles, but has two longish runs a week and at least one of them incorporates efforts at race pace. My partner tends to do this because he has time to train during the week.

Other training methods will see distances up to 20-22 miles, sometimes multiple times. My coach took me up to 24 miles with some efforts in for my last marathon, because I am quite dependent on my Sunday run to get the miles in as I often can't get more than 75 mins at best for a marathon paced session during the week. I tend to race a half marathon flat-out 3-4 weeks before a marathon, which he is less likely to do.

Hi! I’m training for London and I’m doing the Nike Run Club marathon plan which does high long run distance followed by shorter. It does go up to 20 miles 4 weeks out I think but I’m going to add 22 miles at 3 weeks out and begin tapering after that.

Yes this is me re time. It took me 3 hrs 14 to do 16 miles last weekend and 22 miles will probably take me 4 hours plus so time doesn’t work for me

I planned to do 20 before the race but only managed 18. It was fine on the day and I did the full 26 and 385 yards!

i disagree about time on feet unless you tailor it for your running pace (and then you're basically working to distance anyway). A 2:45 or 3 training run isn't going to be enough if you're going to be a 5-6hour marathon finisher, but could be too much if you're really fast.

Sort of - but the time on feet point is more to reflect that not all runs are the same. For example, if my plan says 20 miles then obviously 20 miles up and down hills, on trails, is going to take longer than 20 miles on a flat road. So, instead, having "3 hrs" in the plan makes more sense, as that could be either a 20mile road run or nearer 18 on the fells. The 18 mile fell run is going to be harder!

The point about a 3hr training run not being enough if you're a 5-6 hour marathoner is a really interesting one. It's about finding the point at which the risk of injury outweighs the training benefit and, for most steady/new runners, research shows the negative effects of 3:30 plus runs outweigh the training benefit.
We've all seen new runners hammer out 20 and 22 mile runs in training and then turn up to the start line injured because they haven't been able to recover.

Here's a link with some of the relevant info in it:
https://www.runwithstrength.com/the-long-run-is-it-doing-you-damage/

Personally, I like to mix up my longest runs so I don't get bored. This time around I'll do two 20 mile and one 18 mile road run in training, plus two 3-hr-ish trail runs as well. So I've got what I tend to think of as my five key long runs in the bag, but they're not all to a strict set distance.

That’s really interesting reading. I’m a 5 hour plus marathon runner and anticipate being out for over 4 hours in the longest training runs. I’m deeply envious of fast runners!!

Yes it is an interesting read and this thread has given me lots to think about re my marathon plan. Thanks everyone 😁

This person is running their first. Your plan would have them injured or not finishing on race day. A marathon veteran and a marathon rookie are nowhere near the same.

Too much for a first timer. 2 max at 18+

Naw. If you can do 6 then you can do 8. Now the difference between 8 and 10 psychologically is big. But 6-8, nope

Two 20 milers is unnecessary for a first timer. 22 miles is far too much and unnecessary for a first timer unless they believe they are elite or can go sub 3 hours

Bloody hell alright we get your point