Bring back the stats meeting with parkrun

[RunningAndSinging]

parkrun meeting with ‘bring back the stats’

This may be one sided and biased as it is written by campaigners but even so…..

I am feeling shocked to the core and can’t believe that they said all this out loud as though it was an ok position to hold. I am such an advocate for parkrun and have consistently been banging the drum about all the positives but what they said about their loyal participants - I am horrified they think like that - even Paul Sinton-Hewitt. It feels like the scales have fallen from my eyes and I am so disappointed.

I imagine I will keep going to parkrun events, keep volunteering and continue to enjoy making my own progress with my running and my parkrun stats but I don’t know if I can feel quite the same way about the organisation and its legacy now.

Perhaps I am being dramatic and over invested but it is how I feel.

Oh no - a typo in the title. Should say ‘stats’ not ‘stars’

You can report the thread and ask MN to edit the title

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I think it's been extremely clear for many years that what parkrun values participation above all else. I am not surprised that they intend to reduce and perhaps eventually remove elements that are leading people to conclude that it is competitive.

You can still see an age grading if you want to compare your result to your cohort.

I don't think I'd like it if they did away with timing completely, but it was interesting to see that they would consider going that far.

And the proposed further changes to how event results are displayed is not something I'm sure I would support. Being able to see what's happened during the event you've just run as a whole is something I value - because eg I won't be following the random tourist I was talking to that day and so my idle curiosity in how they did would have to remain unsatisfied. I like to see how others in my club have done, but wouldn't necessarily want to follow them all individually. I loved seeing the results when a junior was first finisher at our event - not because of the time or even the winning, but because it was an amazingly good performance for someone that age. Marking the little achievements is good - like when the woman I knew had a fairly medical issue got round in under an hour for the first time.

If people are v concerned about their security (something the article mentions), I wonder if parkrun could instead look at encouraging pseudonyms? Some people use these anyhow already

I do think that the Run Britain rankings should scrub all parkrun results - not just to reinforce the non-competitive aspect, but also because the timings are not necessarily that accurate.

But the idea that parkrun HQ is the boss is far from new. It's always been autocratic. And I don't think that will change

And if they say inclusive and lose the idea that it's in any way competitive, then that's the way it'll (continue to) go.

The stats were quite warped anyway, the womens ones were useless

It’s not even so much that I mind that they have got rid of the stats (although I liked them and miss them but not so much that it would make me change my opinion of parkrun). It’s the total disregard for the opinions of the people who make the events happen on the ground and calling them replaceable.

To be truly inclusive you need to include the fast competitive runners too and the things that they enjoy.

They do sound like wankers tbh. The stats and men running as women don't affect them.

"If people are v concerned about their security (something the article mentions), I wonder if parkrun could instead look at encouraging pseudonyms? Some people use these anyhow already"

You can do this. I asked HQ about it and was told you could change your name. But you couldn't for example use something like Donald Duck or initials; it had to be a proper name.

All this so that males can get their kicks running in the female category? SMDH

I was just coming to post this as well. I am very disappointed. I think getting rid of the timing will kill it off, if they go that far, but the thing I was particularly shocked about was their disdain for their volunteers, and indeed runners who they say should go off and join running clubs. Many already are, and many events have been part funded by running clubs, my own home parkrun included.

It's a sad day.

I have seen people running as eg C Smith, you don't have to use a complete name either.

To be fair, I have seen people posting (maybe on MN) that they don't like public results because they don't want people to see how slow they are. But I've never seen anyone complain about the age graded or course records!

I do think that the Run Britain rankings should scrub all parkrun results - not just to reinforce the non-competitive aspect, but also because the timings are not necessarily that accurate

I think this will happen sooner or later - if only because it's a backdoor to seeing the results if they only want you to see your own.

If timings aren't that important, I could have had a nice lie in yesterday and left 500 people to get 59:59.

I'm concerned that HQ are in danger of forgetting what the point of parkrun is- a timed run/ walk. If they ditch that principle you lose the point that brings the community together. The volunteers choose to give up their time to facilitate that.

At the finish line yesterday there were so many paces and motivations, and people chose to go to that venue and not just hit the pavements for 5k which they can do themselves. That sense of event, and timing is critical to creating parkrun.

Pissing off your regular runners/ walkers and volunteers isn't a great base for growth, and it's taken parkrun a few years to creep back to their pre-pandemic numbers. Those regulars got it going again after 16 months off, and people's relationship with parkrun shouldn't be taken for granted.

We've been appealing for an additional RD for juniors for a year. You'd think it would be easier as it's not sacrificing runner credits, but getting people to commit to making events happen is easier said than done.

Thanks for posting. I set up a parkrun a few years ago and met both PSH & Russ (and Nick Pearson now disgraced )

Anyway I think they've been totally backed into a corner. I don't like the way HQ did it (and who did they interview?) but they're right that it's their playground so they can make the rules.

I think it's all rather sad tbh. It's got very nasty online. Nicky Clarke's v1000 kept being hijacked by the campaigners. I also agree that 25k signatures is indeed minuscule.

I thought it was a shame the stats were removed but I was over it fairly quickly. I think it's really tedious that the campaigners might double down and make more noise.

Anyone not scanning their barcode, not going through the funnel etc make themselves look ridiculous. I'm embarrassed for them. It's annoying as an RD having that kind of nonsense.

I don't really mind the high level stats going but I like the weekly results and if it wasn't timed I might not bother. I don't know. I guess most people can just time themselves anyway and occasionally if I'm in a rush and the queue is huge I don't go through the funnel (is that bad btw? I just assumed it's like you're not there- please tell me if I'm messing something up). I mainly go to Parkrun as a "sandwich" to break up a long run as less boring and I run a bit faster in a pack (possibly a wildebeest in a former life).

@BovineUniversity

I disagree they look ridiculous - not scanning makes no difference to the volunteers as long as people take a position token and don't mess up the results. I can't see how as a RD you'd even notice. I only noticed a lady doing it the other week because she finished directly in front of me and didn't scan, but that could have been for any reason eg she just forgot her barcode.

And they did repeat the post about Nicky over and over again...and do they really think 100 people will step forward to replace her? Not many people would go to parkrun and junior parkrun most weekends for 15 years.

@Trolleytoken

If you run up to the funnel and duck out, that's not good as the timekeeper might already have "zapped" you, but if you duck out some way back, that's fine. Equally it's fine to go into the funnel and not get scanned, but please take a token and then leave it in the bucket by the scanners.

Hi- thanks for clarifying- no I always basically run on the other side of the path as I approach and don't look like I'm even slightly attempting to go into the funnel. You can see from a way back if there's a big queue. Not blaming them as it's a big park run but sometimes the funnel can be 10 mins or so and I can be a bit tight on time to get back.

I stopped doing park run because of competitive runners.
They were aggressive and had no problem nudging runners they were lapping out of the way.

Or roaring at us to move out of the way.

I run the route now outside of the park run times.

This is my experience too.

My local park run is laps, over the years it’s got more and more competitive, and with that comes very aggressive over takes and rudeness.

I don’t run it anymore. But my schedule means I have to walk along part of the route every week. And majority of the time I’m either physically nudged out of the way or aggressively shouted at. Despite always walking on the verge rather than the path and having a young child in the buggy with me.

@parkrun500club yes sorry I don't think I wrote my post very well!

I agree that not scanning won't make a difference but there was a suggestion about running up to the line and then moving away to not be counted but to make a statement to the timekeepers? I think?

Anyway it looks like it's gone down a cul de sac now and parkrunners can either take it or leave it?

I am sorry about the aggressive runners. I am sure it’s a minority and most people respect each other but it doesn’t take more than one or two to ruin your experience. It would be worth saying something to the run director if it happens again - we do try and speak to people about incidents like that. It is not what parkrun should be.

Take it or leave it does seem to be the message from parkrun HQ.

II went to an event last weekend where the event director had a word about behaviour, Though he said it wasn't just the faster runners being rude, it was slower participants who were hogging the paths by walking three abreast and then getting annoyed if someone asks them to give way.

I do think some events are getting too large and so it's a bit concerning that parkrun wants to double the numbers in four years' time.

I also think the results tables should stay so that people can see the spread of results and whether a particular event is likely to be too fast (or too hard - another reason to look at the results is that you can gauge its difficulty - if the fastest runner does 16 minutes on a flat course and 20 minutes on this one, you can assume it's quite hard! Even with a detailed course description it's not always easy to tell.

Yes if the results list disappears it will all become a bit meaningless. It is good to spot people you know on there (although I do get the stalker argument). Perhaps they could bring in an opt in / out for being named on the list. I agree about looking at the results lists to get an idea of how hard the course is and also if it is popular with the back of the field.

Another place to look at it is the power of 10 rankings list which would disappear if they made the results less public. It would be a shame if that list didn’t exist anymore - it’s fun to see where the local ones are on the list or where to go for a challenge or a fast time.

I miss the list they had on the parkrun website of attendance records and attendance last week. It is just interesting to see a national picture and I don’t know who that was putting off. I think perhaps they didn’t want to ‘glorify’ higher attendance numbers.

I’m astonished at the lengths mainly publicly funded sports organisations will go to upset their participants. It really is astounding. If I’m reading this correctly, parkrun have removed the stats to avoid dealing with the fairness in womens sports issue and have chosen a way which has upset the majority of people participating.
How utterly cowardly.

It's not cowardly. Indeed I'd say it was bold. It's strapline is "free, weekly and timed" and they are prepared to ditch one of those aspects. And one that goes right back to its very inception as Bushy Time Trial.

They want to remain an inclusive event, and are prepared, it seems, to remove anything that leads people to think it is a competitive sports event. They are clear they want to be a community activity that is about participation, not results.

I've posted similar on parkrun threads before, and have been decried - on the general grounds that because some people thought it was competitive or that some runners behaved that way at events, ergo it must be competitive and should follow rules for competitive sports. They thought that the stance that parkrun cared more about community was misplaced, even naive. I think the outcome of this meeting is strong evidence that it was not. (One of the points on one of the threads was that, if they really cared most about participation - with implication that they did not - then they would remove all results. Now they say they are prepared to to move towards that. And I think that does show their priority)

Now it's just a case of how far and how fast they'll move along the range of options they have said are under consideration.