Am I doing the gym right - how can I up the ante

[Changedagain876]

Started in January and go to 3-4 classes a week - kind of a mix of weights/hiit type stuff with some cardio - but my usual is 3 sessions a week to being so busy. Definitely noticed a decent weight loss and some muscle but definitely not where I want to be(flatter tum, bigger bum etc). I’m not overweight but had put on some weight at Xmas so am around 61kg and 5 foot 6 now.

Can anyone give me some pointers as to how to up the ante? Do I need to go more or should I work on diet?

HIIT and cardio burn fat first, they'll improve your cardiovascular system which is important for your health but HIIT is not an efficient way to build muscle in comparison to traditional strength training.

Sorry I have to challenge this.

It 100% depends on the form of HIIT.

I take your point re strength training re muscle building.

However, current HIIT approaches incorporate strength building as part of the session eg working for calories, interspersed with weighted lunges, goblet squats, leg raises plus weights. In fact, if you are already fit & slim, this is how definition & tone is achieved, that switch between the exercise types.

Even with a cardio exercise like burpees, doing it properly will achieve toned abs, defined upper arms, when worked in sets & reps, as part of other cardio / strength / core sets.

I accept that if specifically wanting to 'build' her glutes means having a bigger, more developed bum (not my thing!), that's correct.

If you want to have strong, toned glutes, no flab, lots of cardio exercises achieve that eg squat jumps, working on a ski erg for calories.

Yes but I was answering the OP's specific query

I didn't misunderstand you though, you said what people said was nonsense which isn't true, it just wasn't the same as your opinion and, in your opinion, women don't mean that they want to build muscle when they say they want to build muscle. You seem to think that weight training means becoming like some kind of body builder which just isn't true. There's room for all exercises and the most important thing is to find something you enjoy, of course, but OP specifically said she wanted to build her glutes and that won't happen with HIIT.

I get that, I suppose I wonder was that exactly what OP was looking for? (Yes I know she did say 'bigger bum' 😀)

I w

You seem to think that weight training means becoming like some kind of body builder which just isn't true.

No, I don't 🤔

OP specifically said she wanted to build her glutes and that won't happen with HIIT.

To some extent, it can - it depends on what 'build your glutes' means go that individual & the nature of the HIIT. I think it's poorly understood here quite a bit.

I do accept the point re 'bigger bum' requiring weight training.

She said she was looking to build her glutes
I'm struggling to understand why you think she didn't mean what she said she means.

in your opinion, women don't mean that they want to build muscle when they say they want to build muscle.

That's also not what I said. I said in some cases, and that often when women talk about 'building muscle' they mean achieving definition & tone which can be achieved, and perhaps more effectively, by the approaches I've mentioned.

I can't find a high-five emoji but I want to be exactly the same as you when I'm in my 60s. I want to alarm the young guys in their 20s by still deadlifting and squating heavy

One of my undergrads laughed one day and referred to me as a "proper beast" as we were at an end-of-term party we put on for the students and he was chatting with friends about their training. I dropped in that my sled push PB had recently topped out at 320 kilos. It shut a couple of the other undergrad lads up ...

When I say I lift, a lot of people are quite polite, until I mention my numbers. Although there are some in here (and on this thread) who are lifting way heavier!

It works for me, and I find I get a pretty good cardio workout. Nothing like a set of 12 deadlifts at 65 kilos to get you breathless, or even just 2 reps at 95kilos.

She said she was looking to build her glutes
I'm struggling to understand why you think she didn't mean what she said she means.

Look I apologised for my earlier response but have been polite in later points & this is unfair.

I said - and accept I might be incorrect, that's fine - that possibly the poster was looking to achieve a toned, firm, non-flabby bum.

You're entirely correct, if it's specifically^^ bigger, your points re weight training apply

Anyway OP, best of luck with your plans for training! Hope you find the approach that works for you. 🙂

I have re-read your post a couple of times but I'm still not quite sure what you are challenging here. I said "HIIT and cardio burn fat first", I didn't say it only burns fat or that you can't build strenghth with a gym class style of HIIT.

I'm going to walk away from this thread now, as I'm finding your posts to me and other posters to be rather combative at times. I realise this isn't intentional on your part and is just the inevitable problem with interacting on a faceless forum but I'm not finding this the interesting exchange of experience and knowledge I usually get on here.

Enjoy your workouts, I'm definitely not going to turn up and stop you working out the way you obviously love. I promise if I ever become PM, I will not outlaw HIIT or insist all women only deadlift a minimum of 100kg in any gym one session.😉

I have a thing about the 'weights above all else' approach that gets pushed out here. It's not wrong, at all. But for many people taking on moderate exercise, it's not great advice.

I think the reason that quite a few of us sing the praises of proper weight training when people ask about effective exercises for "toning" and weight loss is that there's such a lot of misinformation about lifting heavy weights for women. The whole "you'll get big muscles" stuff.

That misinformation is the real nonsense.

So a lot of us who offer the advice to get comfortable with a barbell and get trained in the big compound lifts, are offering this advice because we know that most women are scared of free weights, or think that lifting is not for women, or something. Most women will go for cardio, and then wonder why the gains stall.

Maybe that's why you seem to see weightlifting "pushed"

And actually, the advice to take up weight lifting is very good advice. As women age, and certainly from about the age of 40, the way to cope with muscle & bone loss is through some sort of resistance based exercise. Lifting is perfect - Dr Catherine Walter a world champoin Masters powerlifter, got into lifting heavy for just these reasons. She's inspirational:

https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2018/09/26/71-year-old-oxford-professor-crowned-powerlifting-champion/

And the thing I enjoy about lifting is that it's actually quite low impact! It strengthens my knees for the impact of running, for example. And it is a fantastic training for your core, if you do it correctly.

And I just love being REALLY strong. It's a fantastic feeling.

Muscle strength , muscle endurance and muscle hypertrophy are all different things, and obtained each in different ways. University professors and researchers have quite precisely identified the muscle physiology. Muscle growth is achieved by stress, tension, damage and myosin balloons.

The bite size: To gain size (hypertrophy) , which seems to be the OP's goal, the science is quite clear. The OP should target the desired muscle with a protocol of 6 sets of 10 repetition each with a strict 2 minute break in between. The first set will be fine and easily finished, by the time she reaches the last one, she will struggle for the whole set. If possible, exercise in front of mirror to activate mind-muscle connection
The 3 hour explanation divided in 55 minute chunks can be find on Andy Galpin's website www.andygalpin.com/55-minute-physiology . Andy is a professor , runs the Biochemistry and Molecular Exercise Physiology Laboratory and tortures athletes for a living, submitting them to several protocols of workout, diets, and taking out pieces of muscle (biopsies ) from them to prove his point.

For OP"s second point, a flatter tum, she needs to lower her body fat whilst maintaining muscle mass, and yes you can gain muscle and lose fat, all bodybuilders do it before a competition.

tortures athletes for a living

😂😂 😂

Thanks all, have read every comment. Glad to see it isn't actually straightforward. Think I agree that I have hit a plateau, I am wondering whether I should do some personal training sessions to figure out how to start increasing my weights. Classes are good but no time to discuss things.

Think I agree that I have hit a plateau

I hit a plateau a couple of months ago. I was training hard, although the metcon stuff (like 30 minutes of HIIT, but no rest breaks) was no longer making me feel like I wanted to throw up. I was feeling good about the weights I was lifting - regularly sets of 80-85 kilo deadlifts, 40-50kilo squat sets. But it felt like I wasn't going any further. At my age, I wondered if this was it - I was just maintaining now till I hit 70 and then down hill.

And then something happened and I had several weeks of training where I was lifting much heavier, and almost getting a 100 kilo deadlift (I'm half way there). A bout of effing COVID has pushed me back, but the thing about a plateau is, if you keep hacking away at it, what you're doing is building strength in the background. So maybe in your HIIT and pump classes, challenge yourself with heavier weights.

I do this in my regular Bootcamp classes - I have 2 sets of weights - the set I start with & the set I have "just in case" and my aim is to do the whole minute with the heavier ones, if necessary doing fewer reps. But I have the lighter ones just in case. Your final few reps should feel almost impossible, whatever type of class you're doing.

Yes, that is what women often mean - they reduce their body fat and their existing muscles become visible - hence "toned". HIIT can be great to help with that and general fitness.

I agree with pp about muscle building tho - the evidence is you need progressive overload, train to failure, to build muscle.

OP, it depends what you want. If you enjoy the classes, then stick with them, maybe try to go to the 4th. Nothing you said suggests you want to do full-on strength training but if you do then yes you need say 3 or 4 sessions a week, carefully programmed, not general classes in which weights are used. I strength train but go to a HIIT class that incorporates strength moves once a week for general fitness - they are quite different beasts.

@GoodThinkingMax, loving your posts, thank you. I'm 55, started training at 50 with weights, now mainly calisthenics.

@Changedagain876, if you are interested in strength training and can get some good PT - do it!! You will be able to train safely outside classes then, doing the big compound lifts 😀

Sorry if this a stupid but question but is weight training the same as lifting weights in classes? Sounds like it’s something special? I always thought I was already doing weight/strength training

No, in the kinds of classes you’re doing, the training is primarily cardio, not strength. It’s often about numbers of reps eg AMRAP, or EMOM type exercises.

Proper weight training - lifting - is often much much slower, and far fewer reps, with attention to form and technique.

A standard bar bell weighs 20 kilos just to start with, before you put weights on it. My back squat warm up, for example, is 12 squats with just the bar. But in a Body Pump class, I only put around 15kgs on the bar (which is of neglible weight) because I know I’m going to squat continuously for a whole track - 3 minutes or so. It’s a cardio workout as 15 kilos isn’t going to build extra muscle!

Yes, exactly. I strength train mostly without weights - using my bodyweight (calisthenics). People often do this with a partner because you rest half the time or even more. Some hard moves I may only do 3 sets of three of, with a minute or so rest in between sets.

You will be getting fitter, building endurance, perhaps losing weight, doing your classes - so if that't what you want, enjoy - they are good fun, good for you, and much easier to organise than weight training as a beginner. I trained as you did when I first joined a gym - loved it and got much fitter and lost weight doing that.

But if you want to get under the squat rack with some serious weights, or learn to do a pull up or a perfect push up, they won't get you there.

So helpful thank you!!