Fed up of my knee - experienced runner

[ILoveJoeBrown]

Been running all my adult life (ie for 38 years). Last 4/5 years has been a constant battle with knee and hip issues. Whoever said running doesn't hurt your knees is a liar. I'm now at the stage where I'm doing as little running as possible, (3 or 4 x a week, 5-10km), supplementing it with elliptical workouts and lots of stretching and pilates sessions.

Problem seems to almost go and then flares up again. Only my right knee now, which was going OK but then took a hit after I misjudged a jump off a gate during a trail run last week. Still, its an improvement over 3 years ago when both knees hurt so much I could hardly walk let alone run.

Took dog for a walk today and now my back and hips feel seized up and sore. Even on good days, turning over in bed can pull something in my hip. I'm doing physio for hips and knees diligently - if I do any more there'll not be time for work, talking to my husband, walking the dog, housework & other hobbies that take time (moan moan). I also take supplements for joints.

I feel so old. I'm a member of my local AC but don't train with them any more (especially not since lockdown anyway) as I'm just not capable of running as far nor as fast any more.

Am I just unlucky and my body is just not aging well? I always planned to 'go' whilst out running, but never anticipated it being painful for so long. I'm not old by any means, so hope to get much more mileage yet.

Not sure what I'm asking really ? Just a handhold I suppose.

I assume you have been through the menopause if you've been an adult for 38 years? I'm sure I don't need to tell you how much it impacts your body in many ways. Muscles really deplete from when women are 30 and get progressively worse. Running doesn't really build much muscle. Do you do any strength training, eg squats especially single leg squats? Lifting weights have improved my knees so much (I was getting knee pain at age 40). I'd add some resistance work if you don't already (apologies if you know / do all this!).

I was going to say the same...try strength training if not already doing it.

Not strength as it hurts too much?! I can squat ok with a chair, so am doing as many as I can without hurting. I just feel so achy. When running, it eases off after about 10 minutes, then I'm OK. In daily life though, I feel stiff and old. Maybe I need to run more, if it eases up?! (Joking)

definitely menopausal btw

Have you had a proper (i.e. physio not trainer shop) gait analysis? It won’t be your knees that are at fault it will be the way you’re using them. Your knees are probably taking the brunt of a bad chain of movement.
If your physio is just giving you exercises and not getting you to look at how you move in general, then you might want to look for a better physio.

This article has loads of good advice from Dr Stacy Sims who specialises in female nutrition for athletes, and she has done a lot of research into women continuing endurance training into the menopause.

Also can you invest in some PT sessions? I have exactly the same issues as you and have been working virtually with a trainer since Lockdown specifically to build leg / glute strength without stressing my knee.

Definitely need strength training. Also, I know you will hate this (I love running also) have you thought of a temporary break? Allow your body to heal and then get back into it with strength training. Our body is amazing and one of its methods is through pain and telling us when to stop

Been doing pilates which seems to help.

As for a rest - I did that! I took all of October off and did zero. Then used C25K to build back up very gradually. It's been part of my strategy to run every other day for a couple of years now [unless I really really need to get out for a run], so I always have plenty of rest days! It's the main reason I haven't got my numbers up for parkrun. If I run on Friday, I won't run on Saturday.

That said - I'm not working today as I'm drugged up having woken up with my back and hips in spasm. Frustrating but taking the day off. Started to cramp up yesterday during a gently walk with the dog, so it doesn't have to be running that makes me sore.

I can't see how I can take any more rest days, as I'll hardly be doing anything! Maybe I'm just unlucky and this is how menopause is affecting me? I can't use HRT as I have had breast cancer.

Spent some time today looking at my running stats for the year so far, which make me very depressed. This doesn't show all the sessions I'm doing on the elliptical / pilates sessions / stretching, etc - just running.

Well here goes - my stats make depressing reading. I have spent today dosed up on anti-inflammatories due to spasms in my back and hips, so decided to have a look at my stats since 1/1/2020 to see if I'm just over training or over doing something? The summary is - Hardly.

Average weekly distance = 20.1 km / 12.5 miles - yes, you read that right.

Total distance covered = 524.39 km / 326 miles.

[Distance covered in the last 12 months = 953.96 km / 593 miles = 18.3 kpw / 11.4 mpw]

Number of activities per week = 4.5; average of 2.8 miles per run

Average speed = 9.7 kph / 6 mph

Average hear rate = 143 bpm

VO2 max = start of year = 42, went up to 44 now back down to 41

Age - 56 and menopausal - is this the only reason? I'm not running far - at all; I'm not running fast. Why do I feel like I'm not a runner any more?

Not easy to add up stats for non-running activities, but I'm doing elliptical / cross-training [all-round body workouts], pilates and stretching almost every day.

I'm very new to running so not sure I'm the best to advise but you sound so frustrated I really feel for you! Have you tried taking two days between short runs and three or four between longer? I know you probably don't want to run less, but if it worked you might find your runs on those days are better? Also, you mention physio but ha e you ever actually seen or spoken to a doctor and ruled out any other cause? Had any x-rays etc or even bloods checked for any deficiency that could be causing you to struggle with recovery etc? You'd be surprised how low iron or vitamin D can effect you but you might have a touch of arthritis or something and need a specific sort of anti-inflammatory

I went to see a rheumatologist and they gave me steroid injections in my hips. Changed my life. I have hyper flexible joints - I never knew that till she saw me. She said unless I get my gait sorted I would continue to have problems with my knees and hips. I need to do the gait analysis but lockdown got in the way.

I can't run more than 3x a week. Your running schedule looks fairly typical of mine. I don't think that's little - I think it's fine. I just don't think my joints suit it. I was told to do a mix of running and non weight bearing like cycling/swimming and cross training where you aren't constantly jarring your joints.

It's gutting to face not running anymore when it's been such a part of your life.

I have had to give up a few years ago and I'm only in my 40's. I spent several thousand trying to fix my right knee with physio, 2 x MRI's, steroid injections, orthopedic consultant appointments and plasma therapy injections. None of it worked, only time Stopped it hurting quite so much.

This year my other knee went and now that is permanently swollen and I live in knee supports. I used to run 35 miles a week and miss it so much.

Now I just want to be able to kneel and sit back on my feet comfortably because of my job, I gave up on ever running again long ago.

I hope things get better for you op. I do think strengthening work is key, build up the other muscles. I'm crap at it though, my own worst enemy😢

I also wear cushioned trainers and those make a massive difference - and don't run on uneven ground

As you get older, your gait can change. I was always a neutral runner, right through my youth, 20s until the past year or so. I now need a more supportive shoe. I've started weight training more and cross training(cycling - which is helping, especially getting out side more). Pilates is very good. Also menopausal, and need to build up muscles. Boring and no fun, but necessary

I am 47 and had to give up running about 5 years ago, I still miss it sometimes. I had spent a fortune on expensive trainers, physios/sports massage/acupuncture refusing to believe that my knees just wouldnt take it any more. In the end I bought myself a nice road bike and joined a gym where I learnt to lift weights. Now I do lots of strength training, cycling and various exercise classes, avoiding too much high impact. My knees are fine.

Have you been to see an osteopath? I can't help wondering whether you need an all-over checkup to see whether there are any misalignments in the rest of your body, (spine, shoulders, hips etc) which are having a knock-on effect. As others suggest, gait analysis would be good too.

Something else you might like to think about, rather than strength exercises, is to do some passive stretching with resistance bands etc. I reckon that your muscles are too tight, you are getting seized up all over, and loosening everything up could help a lot. Concentrate the strength exercises on your core.

Have you seen a specialist to understand why your knee hurts?Squatting could be exacerbating the problem and I would be loath to make recommendations to anyone over the internet. You do sound like you out do with some sympathy for the loss of identity which seems to be coinciding with a really difficult time of life. You do sound as if you have overcome a bigger challenge with the cancer though so I am sure you can find a way if you are determined. Perhaps you just need to arm yourself with the right information to understand the nature of what it is that is causing the pain.

I didn't run for a few years as I had to have first my right ankle and then my left ankle reconstructed. I was initially told I would never run again but I have some goals and so didn't listen until I found a consultant who could help me. If you keep looking, there will be someone out there who can give you hope and a plan. Wishing you lots of luck.

Have you experimented with cutting carbs? The inflammatory response our bodies have to them can cause joint issues. It might be worth a try for a few weeks, before trying anything more drastic. It seems to be sorting my knee out, and I was in a very similar situation. I wanted to avoid medication so I gave this a try first.

Also are you a heel-striker? This can exacerbate knee issues that transfer into the hips and back, and... well, the whole body.

Almost every problem I've ever had as a runner seems to have stemmed from my back, including a real struggle with hip issues and some lesser problems with one knee.

I see an osteopath every 6 weeks or so now (in my 50s) he usually manages to sort things out for me before they develop.

From my experience, I don't think running has hurt my knees, but does cause problems to my back that I feel in my knees. I think this is why knee problems can be so difficult, because we treat the wrong place.