Gaining lean muscle, lose fat- how?

[RosieLig]

Hi,

Hopefully someone can help me. I'm fairly slim at 9.5 stone and 5 foot 6. A size 8/10 with fairly big build. My body fat is around 25%

Over the last few months, I've done quite a lot of exercise. Body pump 2/3 times a week (lifting as heavy as I can without losing form eg 20kg on squats), boxercise and Gillian Michaels DVDs. So most days.

Despite this I feel I've not seem much improvement in my physique. Still a wobbly tummy and arms.

I do eat a bit of chocolate in the evenings and a couple of glasses of wine. I've decided to cut them out for now but I'm a big annoyed about it! The rest of my diet is good.

I just feel like I put in a lot of effort for little results. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Hi Rosie we sound very similar. I'm 5'6" and 9st3lb, size 8/10 and 25%bf too! I do Jillian Michaels and kettlebells workouts but not frequently enough. I have noticed improvements in my musculature since starting the shred in the Spring and I'm certainly a lot less wobbly about the upper arms, thighs, bum and abdomen than I was. Do you have a before photo to compare against? It's just that my measurements and weight haven't changed much and the differences to my body have happened extremely slowly. Could it be that you have made improvements but they've been so incremental that you haven't noticed?

My current plan is to cut over the summer (after my holidays) so I'm going to continue with the JM and kettlebells and I'm combining a low carb diet with carb refeeds (a cyclical ketogenic diet) with 14:10 intermittent fasting (i.e. skipping breakfast) to try and lose a bit more body fat. The idea behind the intermittent fasting is to try and target the stubborn areas of fat, in my case my lower abdomen and thighs. After the summer I'm going to start the New Rules of Lifting for Women workout plan to try and build muscle and hopefully achieve a bit of body recomposition. It's a six-month workout plan so I'll be able to assess how I've done at the end of that and decide on the next step.

Rosie, I feel your pain :(
Earlier in the year I was sick of my wobbles so decided to try and shift it/tone up.
I was already within healthy weight and Bmi and a size 12/14 but I'm carrying too much fat and know I'll feel better roughly 10-14lbs lighter.
So off I went - I exercised a minimum of 5x weekly (shredding, hiit, kettlebells and walking) and stuck to a healthy diet/portion control.
8 weeks.... 8 long weeks and I PUT ON weight

I went up 2 kilos and while my muscles started waking up again and were becoming slightly toned in some area's, the fat wasn't shifting - simply sitting on top of the muscle making me look and feel terrible.
For example my bum - I was doing a lot of squats and lunges and my bum seemed to have 2 parts to it - the top part the muscle was emerging and doing what it should but at the bottom it remained fat/wobbly :( It kind of had a ledge to it :)
I gave up in a fit of dissapointment :(
My weight has stayed around what it was I keep fluctuating with the 2 kilos gained and I'm ready to come back to it. This time I'm going to try and drop the fat first before picking up the kettlebells or doing strength training.

I believe some people just aren't made to do the - build muscle burn fat thing - it does work for others just not for me. That said, it could well be hormonal in my case as I recently found that I have an imbalance but according to the gp, it shouldn't affect my weight or the ability to lose.

I suppose building muscle requires a calorie surplus and losing fat requires a calorie deficit so that's why you can't do them both at the same time. You can't turn fat into muscle. That's why bodybuilders alternate cut and bulk cycles.

I really don't rate these classes aimed at (mostly) women.

I now do the same as DH. High protein, no rubbish and weight training. Stunt has it right imho. Men don't do this shit, the men at my gym look amazing. The women do a yoga class then sit and drink coffee. The blokes have been very welcoming and I'm seeing a difference. I feel like I've been scammed for years.

stunt and judys I am looking to lower my body fat and increasing my muscle. Should I work on building the muscle and increasing my calories first? I never heard of bulking and cutting before.

If I just eat clean and do weights and go swimming will that mean that I'm not going to build muscle?

I eat clean, lift weights and swim too.

I'm new to bulking and cutting, DH is bulking at the moment, he had two chicken breasts and loads of brown rice for tea. He eats 5 egg omlettes too.

Today for me was:

One scrambled egg, mushrooms and an apple.
2.5 mile walk to gym with DH.
1 hour with personal trainer.
1 hour free weights with DH
Protein Shake and a banana.
3 mile walk the long way home.
1 Slice Wholemeal toast and hummus.
2 mile walk to shop and back.
Grilled chicken breast, peppers, mushrooms and a whole corn on the cob.

I'm tired, full and happy. My muscles are starting to pop, I haven't 'lost' any weight but my body fat % is dropping and my muscle % is going up. When I say I'm losing weight I mean losing my fat.

I have a calorie deficit most days, however I'm making as many of my meals protein and veg as I can. Muscle is 'tastier' for the body than fat apparently so a lot of cardio can apparently result in muscle loss rather than fat loss. DH can't do more than 40 minutes a week or he loses his gains.

I reckon that as I'm going for the fitness rather than body builder physique this isn't an issue, but I accept sometimes my body will eat my gains.

Thanks Judys .

I don't understand a lot of that. All the exercise I do is for fun. I would like to gain more muscle but I'd rather not eat shit loads of food. Is that what you are saying, that to build muscle you have to over eat? I don't want to be a contestant, I just want to be strong and healthy.

Should I eat more? Feel a donut tomorrow. Should I lift heavier?

Thanks for indulging me.

No, don't overeat. Eat slightly less calories than you need and make as many as you can god wholesome food like lean meats and veg.
Eggs are a great lower sugar breakfast.

I avoid doughnuts, chocolate, cakes, cereals, alcohol. I rarely eat potatoes but when I do I have sweet potatoes. I only eat brown bread, pasta and rice.

I have whole milk in my protein shakes. Calcium is important if you're lifting.

Tara simultaneously losing body fat and building muscle is the holy grail of exercise but it isn't that easy to achieve. If you take up weight training, and by that I mean high weight low reps, then it is possible to lose fat and build muscle initially, especially if you are carrying a bit more fat than optimum. A lot of experienced bodybuilders alternate cutting, where you undereat to lose fat and increase cardio, with bulking, where you overeat and you increase your lifting to build muscle. It can get quite technical though and it's really for people that take their exercise very seriously.

Cardio isn't great for weight loss for two reasons. First you will likely eat more to compensate for the exercise. Also most cardio doesn't tend to make your muscles bigger, it makes them more efficient unless you're working out at maximum intensity e.g. with HIIT (high intensity interval training). In my younger days I did a lot of swimming and it built up my abs but I didn't lose any fat. So I ended up with rock hard abs but still with a hefty cushion of fat over them.

If you want to look 'toned' then you need to cut your body fat percentage to 22% or lower and weight train to increase your muscle size. I currently weigh 129 lb and have 25% body fat so I have 97 lb lean body mass and 32 lb fat mass. To achieve a 22% bf% I would need to lose 5 lb of body fat. OR I can try to lose 3 lb of fat and gain 3 lb of muscle. This is sometimes called body recompositioning and it results in a better figure even though it doesn't involve losing weight overall. At the moment I'm using a low carb diet to try and lose the 3 lb and I'm doing some exercise to improve my overall fitness. Then in September I'm starting a weight training routine to try and build muscle. Obviously I'm hoping that I will continue to lose a bit of fat when I start weight training, but I'm not relying on it.

Thanks for the information, it does make sense now.

How do you know your bodyfat?

There are online apps to calculate it Tara, you put in your measurements and it gives you an approximate body fat percentage.

Thank you! It came out as 22.46%. I used the US Navy calculator.
I think because my waist is very small my score was slightly lower than reality.

There's a lot more me to think about, this thread has been really useful.

Hi Rosie, The New rules of lifting for Women plus a low carb diet have made a HUGE difference to my shape. Ive lost a good 6 pounds even lifting twice a week and my stomach and arms are much better. Im 5'0 and down to just under 9 stone now for the first time in a few years.

Give it a go. I feel so much better and look leaner as a result.

I'm glad to hear that Short, I'm starting the NROLFW in September. I'm not doing the diet though so I hope it's going to work.

Less reps more weight - opposite of pump really. Check out body building forums for workout suggestions.

If you are 150 lb and 29.3% bf then you have 150x0.293= 44 lb fat mass and 106 lb lean body mass. Assuming you can preserve your lean body mass at 106 lb, to achieve a bf of 24% your total weight would be 106/(1-0.24)= 139.5 lb. So you would need to lose 10.5 lb (of fat) to achieve a 24% body fat. This is all approximate though since your body fat can't be calculated that precisely and you would likely lose some lean body mass along with the fat.

Proseccoco running and body pump are great for your cardiovascular health and your fitness but they aren't the best for losing weight. A lot of people say exercise is only 20% of weight loss and diet is 80%. For a woman to lose weight by running you would need to do 10 mile runs a few times a week. The other issue is that cardio tends to make muscles smaller and more efficient whereas to get a toned look you want the muscles to be bigger. The only way to make muscles bigger is by resistance exercise. I do Jillian Michaels workouts which use hand weights and body weight exercises but I'm recovering from lower back and pelvis issues so I'm having to work up slowly, for a long time I couldn't walk more than half a mile. I'm also using kettlebells to build up my muscles which were somewhat puny wasted. I have found a low carb diet works well for me but there are plenty of options out there. When you see the models on the exercise DVDs you have to remember that they didn't get those figures from doing the exercises in the DVD, they got them by weight training and watching what they eat.

That's pretty much my plan Proseccoco, let's hope it works!

This thread is a revelation!

I'm 5'8 and 140lbs (10 stone), slim (size 10/12) and I exercise at least 6 times a week, often 7. My exercise is a mix of power Pilates, swimming and I've recently started a HIIT bootcamp (twice a week) which is a mixture of running at different speeds / inclines / durations then floor work with weights and you do this switch 4 times within an hour, with each day targeting a different part of the body. There are a number of blokes in the class too and you can see the effects on the serious regulars.

I eat a low carb (but lots of green veg), low fat, high protein diet with minimal 'cheats' - no chocolate, cakes, cheese, bread etc but the weekend wine / G&T is more tricky...

My legs and bum are very toned and strong and I can feel my abs on my stomach but they are 'hidden' beneath a layer of wobble. I look slim clothed but there is absolutely no visible tone on my upper or lower abs. I also have limited strength in my arms (although they - and my shoulders look toned from on top. Hate hate hate my armpits though),

Will the HIIT have an effect on my stomach? Is it possible to target an area? Or should I just head straight to the traditional gym and lift with the scary looking men?!

Pringle if you do a crunch or a leg raise can you feel your abdominal muscles? Mine feel pretty hard and strong but you can't see anything because I still have too much subcutaneous fat. In my case I don't need to work on my abs, I need to lose fat to reveal the muscle that's already there. Most women won't have visible abs until they're at or below 22% body fat. I'm using intermittent fasting where I only eat within a ten-hour window for three or four days a week. Allegedly this is the best way to target the stubborn fat, in my case on my abdomen and thighs, which is where the fat goes on first and leaves last.

Yes! I can feel my abs when I'm standing / relaxed - I don't need to crunch / leg lift to feel them and they are hard. But hard to see also...! Lord only knows how I loose any fat - eat such a low fat diet as it is! Is it simply a case of eating much less / less often?

To loose bodyfat you have to eat the good fats in your diet at every meal. Fats burn Fat Olive Oil, coconut oil and avocado are natural fat burners. You also need to change the way you eat five or six meals a day regulates your metabolism to burn fat faster. Everybody is different but burning fat off the lower half of our bodies is hard to shift.
I am currently under 15% body fat this is measured by Calipers from 12 parts of my body weekly By my coach. I train 7 days a week 5day lifting heavy weights the other 2 days is intervals cardio.