weights or cardio? still confused...

[allag]

Hello

i went back to the gym about 8 months ago for the first time in years - trying to do 4-5 times a week when work permits which is most of the time. i want, and keep failing to, lose a couple of kilos and generally tone up I guess, despite the fact that i do faily intense classes (for me, anywah! :)) that burn about 400-500 calories ago. I usually do a mixture fo cardio and weights (spinning and body attack for cardio, circuts for a mixture of the two and body pump for weight training). am aware that diet is key to losing weight and generally eat very very healthy but don't seem to have lost any weight although do seem to have toned up a little bit. my question is for all you fitness experts out there - what is the most effective mix of weight training and cardio for best results? i have just read somewhere to do 3 sessions of weight training a week and use the rest of the time doing cardio. Do you agree? Any advice much appreciated as I am constantly struggilng to work out which classes to do...i enjoy them equally, really. THank you.

Hi- it sounds like you are doing a good combination of weights and cardio. I would go along with 3x per week weights then same of cardio but you can do both on same day if you want (as with circuits), using interval training for cardio to cut down the time required for a session, to get the same if not better results. Also consider how hard you are working with the weight training. The last few reps of a set should be really hard, so you are working the muscle to failure, in order to get the most from it. If you manage a full set of exercises in body pump without too much effort then try increasing the weights a bit.

When it comes to burning calories, and therefore helping weight loss, cardio is best in the short term, because it burns more calories in itself, but the weight training will build muscle, which is denser than fat and burns more calories at rest than fat, so increases your metabolism overall and makes you appear trimmer than you would at the same weight but with less muscle. So you should also bear in mind the whole toning up thing, have you checked your measurements since you started training? Do our clothes feel looser? If so then it is working and maybe your actual weight shouldn't be the focus, more your fitness and how your body looks.

Having said all that, is true that weight loss is, generally speaking, 80% diet though. Eating healthily is great but does not necessarily mean that you aren't eating too much . Have you tried tracking everything on something like myfitnessplan? It may throw up some surprises about how many calories you are actually consuming and it puts exercise calories into perspective. If changes need to be made, then you can think about the best way to do this to suit you .

HTH

My trainer told me that when you are doing cardio you only burn calories whilst actually doing the exercise but with weights you carry on burning calories after stopping for some time after (3 days??) but cardio makes you feel better ie breathing, fitness etc. So if doing an hours exercise best to do 20 mins cardio and 40 mins weights.

thank you very much - all very very helpful. i generally stick to classes as i am much better in them than when i try to movitate myself on machines on my own; but I will try to find more interval-type training which combines both. in Pump yes, I am definitely really strugging towards the end of a set (and even earlier.. :)), so am conscious of the need to find it hard, and I think i am going as hard as I can at the moment....burning agony!! :)
yes, our trainers also told me that calorie burning continues for a long tiem after weights training. it seems that perhaps it would just take longer for weight training to have an effect but as we are all told, it is better to lose weight slowly.....

on eating -a very good point. I did track it for a while - in my desperation to lose the couple of kilos that i put on since I went back to work i probably go on something like 800 cals a day during the week on average - more on weekends but no excesses. occasionally when I have a night out with the girls I will definitely stop counting the drinks though - that might definitely be part of the problem. i don't know if I just have ludicrously low metabolism. we went to stay with my in-laws for three days and I had 2 or 3 normal meals there - including a healthy lunch (i mostly had salad) and a normal supper - e.g. roast chicken/veg. Found that after 3 days of normal eating (reasonably healthy, no junk food as my MIL is on a diet too....) I put back all the weight i had recently lost and it's still there after a week....
i am definitely doing something wrong diet-wise.

i think I look a bit more toned but in terms of losing inches - clothes feel pretty much the same level of tightness. one thing is my tummy is definitely flatter and I think i have lost weight around the waste. things and bum have not budged!!

sorry for the long rant and thanks again for all the tips. :)

that was meant to red "thighs", not things. :)

800 calories is very low, aren't you struggling with that? What kind of things do you eat and drink? And what is your height and BMI? Are you petite?

What sleep said. Eat more, make sure it's real food :) 800 cals is a really bad idea...

well the 800 cals has been in an attempt to shift the pounds. I haven't struggled hugely with it as havent got a big appetite. i am short (just over 5 ft 1) - and BMI is roughly about 23. So not overweight but look and feel better when I am about 2 kilos lighter which I had been for years, until went back to work a year ago (i wondered if it was the sitting at my desk as opposed to running around with 2 small DC that did it, or the fact that i also stopped breastfeeding which always helped me lose all the baby weight and more, and keep it off...

the 800 cals (PLUS gym) has not been working though - I will lose the weigh (though v slowly it must be said) then one or two days eating normally and it's all back on again (when i say "normally", I don't mean "falling off the wagon" but just eating normal healthy meals which add up to more calories than 800 - but without excess). it may be that my body is now holding on to whatever it gets as thinking about it, i have been a light eater for years and it;s used to getting relatively little; or may be i am just not made to be any smaller without breastfeeding..... I have been surprised that given the low calories, exercise doesn't seem to have made a difference. surprised because everwhere seems to say "run a calorie deficit, and you WILL lose weight......".

am aware that i need to eat more but i know I will then put on weight even despite the gym - I suppose that is why I am wondering, at least, how to maximize my workout effectiveness....

Thank you all.

800 calories will be totally messing up your metabolism especially if you are eating that on days you are exercising.

Eat more but eat well. Weights are definitely better than cardio. Weights will build muscle for you - do not be shy of big lifts such as deadlifts and squats. Muscle burns more calories than fat but weighs more. If your bmi is 23 I would stop weighing and stick to working on losing body fat.

Go and calculate your bmr (basal metabolic rate) there are calculators online, if you want to lose weight they recommend no more than a 20 per cent deficit on that, and if you exercise 500 calories you should eat 500 calories more. Honestly.

Well it sounds strange and tbh, not ideal to be eating that little. I am not an expert but would think that perhaps your body has adapted to coping with very little food over years of it (but I still struggle to think that even a very efficient body wouldn't lose weight with calorie intake that low). I am not sure of the best approach to rectify this, i would imagine that increasing intake over a period would be the answer but would get proper advice on this.

Alternatively maybe you are consuming the wrong types of food, you don't say what your diet consists of, but I definitely believe different bodies deal better with different food.

There is a thread on weight loss club here somewhere with people who, like you, say that the approach of restricting calories to lose weight never works for them. They use a method of never eating below their TDEE (total daily energy expenditure iirc) and seem happy that it works for them, maybe it's worth taking a look.

The thing I am most about is how you put on 4-5 pounds in a matter of days of eating "normally". That doesn't sound possible...

Anyhow, I am aware I am giving unsought advice now (which can be v irritating, sorry ). Your workout plan sounds good!

At a guess the 4-5 pounds got put in was water retention.

I'm not an expert, but if I were you I would Google 'tdee calculators' and work out what you would need to eat to maintain your bodyweight. Then multiply that by 0.9 to get a 10% deficit. Slowly work your way up to eating that number of calories each day (you don't need to worry about eating exercise calories as tdee takes exercise into account) and then stick to that amount for 3 weeks whilst doing weights 3 times a week and cardio a few times. If after 3 consistent weeks nothing had changed then try changing your work outs. Myfitnesspal.com is great as a tracking tool and the forums on there are usually quite good to.

You don't need to be eating at a large deficit as you don't have much to lose. Good luck :)

Should read you put on

Also take measurements at the start of the three weeks, arms, chest, stomach, hips, thighs, calves. You might find that the scales don't move much but your measurements change. Try to cut down on salt and processed foods :)

You need to focus on eating first (whilst continuing your exercise). Your body has become used to 800 cals so whenever you eat normally (ie over 800 cals!) you gain weight. Unless you always want to eat 800 cals every single day, you need to calculate your TDEE (as per MrsGSR advice), eat at 10-20% deficit of that. But work up to it slowly. Start adding in 50-100 calories extra a day (on top of 800 cals) per fortnight or longer. Build up slowly. Let your body get used to higher calories. Continue the exercise you're doing and address that much later on. Focus on eating more and raising your metabolism first.

thank you very much everyone, it's very much appreciated. Stuff I eat is fruit (lots), veg and some protein (latter two in salads usually). nuts (as an occasional snack, and a handful - not lots). very few carbs other than fruit - I am thinking increasing protein and reducing the fruit might benefit me . More variety at weekends. some days a couple of biscuits in the office (a couple though - not a "secret eater" who will unwittingly eat a packet :)). i have a few drinks during the week though, may be a couple of large glasses of wine two nights a week on a normal week, and once every few weeks lots of champagne with the girls....i mean, every once in a while I will go out for a normal lunch during the week with colleagues and most weekends with my family, but there I eat normally - healthily.
great advice about the BMR and TDEE - i will definitely go investigate both and have a look at the weight loss thread, etc. Mrs GSR, sounds like a very good 3-week plan.
I lose weight if i eat very, very little - less than now - AND exercise. So I need very extreme calorie restriction, but it does not get sustained. Other, less extreme, calorie restriction so far just has not worked at all, bizarrely. i am glad to hear there are people out there who have found a similar thing. When I was younger and ate normally I was always prone to being a bit overweight so may be part of it is just that i have very low metabolism.
As for putting on the 4-5 pounds - some of it will be the actual food and water retention, I agree. I was just surprised that it has stuck around for a week when I reduced the calories again.
i have very, very little in the way of salt and processed food - i am thinking, very likely too much coffee and perhaps i should cut out alcohol altogether for a while (painful thought....).
Anyway - am aware this is turning into a nutrition rather than exercise issue so will try and work on increasing calorie intake gradually and see how the 3 weights/2 cardio sessions a week go. many thanks again everyone!!

1 pound is something like 3500 calories, so to put on 4 pounds you'd have to overeat by 14000 calories on top of your tdee. Metabolism will have some effect on that, but not a massive effect.

Your metabolism probably is slower at the moment but you can definitely quicken it up, but it will take a while as you'll have to increase your calories slowly, as Bssh has said. Weight training will also increase your metabolism, and as you start to eat more you'll be properly feeding your muscles and will probably notice that you can increase the weights faster, which in turn will increase your metabolism more :)

Also, your diet sounds really good but I would definitely suggest logging for at least a week. Buy some accurate scales and log everything by weight. I was surprised to find that what I thought of as a medium banana was considered a large, and the same for a few other foods. I was eating really healthy, but the portions were bigger than I thought so I was overeating slightly. Little things add up :)

sure - have logged before, with MFP - but will again. I don't count cals every day but I do eat very similar things each day (at least during working week) so there is not much variation. I certainly don't account for banana size although would normally put the higher end but you are right, it's definitely worth doing. I know for a while i was drinking lattes without having a clue how much they were - that stopped a long time ago but I am sure there can be other surprises. i just doubt that will take me from 800 cals to over the 1800ish that my very quick TDEE calc suggested....( i have no idea of my body fat % and that seems to be needed, so will need to work it out properly once i know). I do agree, though that little things add up.
i would be amazed if I had overeaten by 14000 calories ON TOP of the TDEE while with my in-laws. There were just meals, nothign in between, and I didn't even touch the carbs like potatoes normally and had LOTS of salad at lunch..... .
will do a log too, definitely. :) Thank you.

I think you are absolutely right about increasing protein and reducing fruit (or swapping for veg). Lots of fruit and regular wine mean lots of sugar....you could also maybe swap (some?) wine or bubbles for vodka/gin? Try and eat protein with every snack and meal, without plenty of protein you won't get the results you want from the weight training, you will end up burning muscle instead of building it

fully agree. definitely too much sugar. just done MFP and while total tally for today is 690 so far - fairly typical and I normally have little when i get home (at the mometn at least, while on my "weight loss" quest...) - sugar is the only thing that is a over my "target" (something fairly simple MFP came up with for me when I first registered). i just love fruit and crave it but it has to go down. scary though - i burnt 600 cals at spinning today so vastly underconsuming, and it is a reasonably typical day (high end for a work out, but still). something is definitely messed up . and i don't even feel hungry. of course, today does not include any wine........