Brexit mega thread part 13: All eyes on Ireland

[SerendipityJane]

With the Windsor framework up & running, and the DUP having a "you could set your calendar by it" hissy fit, but Irish unification refusing to keep it's head down, what next in the long running sage of UK vs. the real world ?

I love the US. It has this incredible "just do it" attitude that leaves a real physical imprint in the land. Which, as someone British, I respect, since we used to have it too. Obviously not now. We'd struggle to build an airfix kit. But in days of you - particularly the Victorians - there is a sense that these folk just did not know what "no" meant.

We are currently living through the 55th anniversary of the moon landing. I think that says it all.

Now the Tories are trying to take credit for Labour desperately repairing relationships...

https://x.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1814446049697902626

On UK gun laws, have I ever suggested here that I'd want them changed. I don't, I'm actually proud of them, just as they are. I used not to hold that view but I was plainly wrong and I changed my mind on this in around 1999.

UK standards being a barrier to US trade I am absolutely OK with. Retained or aligned EU standards being used, in the UK, as a barrier to a future UK-US FTA would be wrong, in my opinion. Clearly a minority opinion on here, but I'm allowed to have it.

The sovereignty point is specious. The UK government should determine, through UK law, what regulations it wants to govern products and standards applicable in the UK. Companies should decide what they want to make and offer for sale. Customers should decide what they want to buy.

At this point, I am not really sure what you want. Maybe that's just me. Anyone else make sense of this ?

The UK government should determine, through UK law, what regulations it wants to govern products and standards applicable in the UK. Companies should decide what they want to make and offer for sale. Customers should decide what they want to buy.
And when companies pull out of the UK market because its not worth their while jumping through another set of hoops
will you stay happy ?

The market that drives worldwide trade standards upwards is the EU

Deregulation is by definition a race to the bottom
(see river pollution and what happened to the shellfish industry after Brexit was applied)

Er, yes. I'll stay happy. Why would I not be. Who's pulled out of the UK market, name 1 major international corporation who's left the UK market due to our leaving the EU. Not, "moved some people", or "moved some business", left.

What "another set of hoops" is there if UK law says to American firms, in some sectors; our standards = the same ones you meet domestically in the USA.

Use UK law as a barrier where we want to. Don't use it where we don't want to.

I don't want to drive trade standards upwards, I want to drive prices for people downwards.

@LouiseCollins28
Have you not noticed the amount of small specialist suppliers for things like theatre lights and white goods spares who have stopped shipping to the UK

Or the multiple food suppliers who no longer ship to the UK

Really ?

UK standards being a barrier to US trade I am absolutely OK with. Retained or aligned EU standards being used, in the UK, as a barrier to a future UK-US FTA would be wrong, in my opinion. Clearly a minority opinion on here, but I'm allowed to have it.

So are you saying that if the UK wants to retain EU food standards because it feels they are superior to US food standards (and they are) then you would not be OK with that and would want them changed ever-so-minimally-a-teeny-weeny-bit just so that they're different from EU standards? Because they have the 'taint' of EU on them? That's honestly ridiculous.

Also specialist bike parts and music supplies. Essentially UK people have fewer options and can't get what they really want. I am not OK with that.

It's xenophobia at the bottom every time.

I guess we need to remember that great empires like the Chinese had such views in the past. The difference being China spans a continent ad it was in the past.

I wonder whose side Louise would take in Shogun ?

@Talkinpeace The market that drives worldwide trade standards upwards is the EU.

Does that not mean higher prices and restricted access to other, but equally safe and cheaper, goods to those who can't afford to buy a Rolls Royce every time?

For example, Audi recommend 99 octane fuel for my car, but it will run on 95 octane without risk of damage. The only difference is slightly less power as per the Audi handbook, but I real driving I have never noticed.

For those suppliers that have stopped supplying to the UK, please provide:

Their names.
Details of the goods and services they used to provide.
Proof that the UK population is worse off now that those suppliers have moved away from the UK.

@pointythings Also specialist bike parts and music supplies. Essentially UK people have fewer options and can't get what they really want.

Are specialist bikes parts and music supplies not only applicable to a small number of people as they are specialist? ie it does not affect the majority of the country.

I am not OK with that.

You are one person out of Approx. 68 million. So, I will present the same as I did to Talkinpeace.

For those suppliers that have stopped supplying to the UK, please provide:

Their names.
Details of the goods and services they used to provide.
Proof that the UK population is worse off now that those suppliers have moved away from the UK.

@LouiseCollins28 I don't want to drive trade standards upwards, I want to drive prices for people downwards.

Exactly. EU standards are higher than some other countries to prevent access to cheaper, but equally suitable alternatives, to maintain their cartel.

JRM has said several times that EU Tariffs on; food clothing and footwear are high and represent a large amount of expenditure for those least well off.

The businesses that have stopped supplying the UK tend to be smaller businesses in niche markets and from my experience as a knitter I can still buy yarn but not the same choice of yarn as many independent dyers no longer ship to the UK.

Globe's junior school debating society skills are back to the fore I see...

x.com/joebiden/status/1815080881981190320?s=46

Biden pulls out.

Sadly Biden has named Kamala.
Hopefully the Party will do the right thing and ignore him.

I don't have an opinion either way on who they choose @Talkinpeace, but I'm interested to know who you would pick.

It's going to be rollercoaster between now and November for the Democrat party.

@TheABC
I have issues with Newsome, but a Newsome / Whitmer ticket could beat Trump.
The Democrat convention closes on 22nd August.
It all has to be agreed by then.
A few issues around transferring PAC funding, but money always wins out in US politics

THere are a couple of other really strong people who could run, but none will want the Harris baggage.
Michelle Obama is NOT on the list.

REmember that Bill Clinton is younger than either Biden or Trump !

Sadly I do think they need to ditch Kamala Harris - I don't think the Americans want a President who is not a white male. Even a crook like Trump would be preferable to a brown skinned female.

@VimtoVimto

I am not a knitter, but my grandmother was. The jumpers she knitted for her grandchildren were better than those which were available in shops off the peg as they were made to measure.

She stopped when the youngest grandchild reached 16 as they were working and the cost of yarn became prohibitive. That was back in 2004. Long before Brexit.

PS

Trump for the next US president is ideal

Vimes boots theory comes to mind

I am a knitter now, and I am not the slightest bit interested in what your grandmother did 20 years ago Globetrotter - you clearly don't know the state of the market.

It is still possible to obtain e.g. Italian yarns but for many importers and exporters Brexit has pushed costs up and made some businesses unviable.

@DuncinToffee

The Vimes boots theory is flawed as it does take into account available cashflow. Take a look at:

Benefits family given £26,000 handout on new TV show are now business tycoons - Mirror Online

The family became successful as they had cash upfront.

On a more global scale, look at Poland. Tipped to be the 5th largest economy in a few years. However, would that be due to; effort, entrepreneurship, ingenuity and hard work on the part of the Polish people, or on the back of cashflow provided by others? I would say more to do with the later.

In the case of children, who are still growing, what would be the point of buying expensive shoes which last for years when they will soon grow out of them?

@Peregrina

If equally suitable and cheaper alternatives are available, what difference does it make if more expensive options are less available?

Knitting was one of the crafts my DM loved - Knitmaster, ribber, knitradar, Sirdar, punching holes in the pattern cards (maybe where I picked up a love of IT ?)

I rarely wore anything shop bought (couldn't afford it) but it was so well made and designs were so good, it was like boutique day every day.

And when Harry Potter came our, there was a flood of scarves and jumpers for the grandkids that you most certainly couldn't get in the shops. I think she'd have been happy if we'd buried her in a woollen coffin.

Lace making, macrame, crochet - there was always something on the go.