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Brexit

Westministers : Saving the Union

954 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2021 23:26

Apparently we need a tunnel. Just like we needed the £53 million failed Garden Bridge.

Nice little earner for anyone involved.

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buckerrucker · 28/02/2021 14:50

The last few years have made me feel that the view of history that emphasises key individuals has it right. Would Brexit have happened without Murdoch? Or without Farage?
Just 1 or 2 people are enough to change the atmosphere in a country, the way lots of people think, feel and express themselves.
Thatcher changed the tone of the UK - people became more individualistic. Brexit has done the same. And a very small number of people have made Brexit, and hard Brexit, happen.

prettybird · 28/02/2021 15:15

I did wonder if this argument of Sturgeon vs. Salmond is being bigged up for all it's worth for a reason. Johnson's normal propaganda has so far failed dismally, so they are trying something new.

Very much my take.

The Unionists are shit scared because poll after poll is showing a majority supporting Independence (although it's not quite so clear cut if you take into account the Don't Knows/Won't Say) and Nicola is a great political asset and astute operator. With the Holyrood elections coming up and the SNP campaigning explicitly on saying a majority will be a mandate for an Indyref 2 (and don't forget: the Scottish Greens are also pro-Indy), they (the Unionists) are doing everything in their power to bring her down.

And the Unionists are being aided in this by a bitter wee man who is so narcissistic that he is prepared to traduce his legacy and what he claimed to believe in, all to prove that he is "better" that the woman that replaced him and is eclipsing his achievements. Angry

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 15:21

The Unionists are shit scared because poll after poll is showing a majority supporting Independence

Because it's the actions of the Unionists (or when it comes to Boris "unionist") that is driving appetite for independence.

Also, there's only so much warm words can offer. No one has actually deigned to demonstrate to the average Scot quite how much the union is worth to the pound in the pocket.

Maybe the SNP should drive around Scotland in a big (blue) bus with "We give £50 million a week to Westminster - let's use it to fund our NHS instead" on the side ?

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 15:21

This popped up in my FB as I pressed send ...

Westministers : Saving the Union
TatianaBis · 28/02/2021 15:29

And the Unionists are being aided in this by a bitter wee man who is so narcissistic that he is prepared to traduce his legacy and what he claimed to believe in, all to prove that he is "better" that the woman that replaced him and is eclipsing his achievements.

Absolutely.

It was extraordinary that was found not guilty on the basis of the evidence available in the media. The verdict was a disservice to the complainants, to women in general and now to the SNP.

He should be thanking his lucky bloody stars, not trying to take the SNP down in a hail of vituperation.

prettybird · 28/02/2021 16:40

The annoying thing is the case against Salmond is that while he was found "not guilty" on 12 charges and "not proven" an another ("sexual assault with intent to rape"), the defence case acknowledged that he was a "sex pest" Shock

So Nicola (or more properly, the civil servants) would have been remiss in her/their duty if the complaints against him (after all, an "acknowledged sex pest" who is also in a position of power) hadn't been investigated Shock

At the moment, she seems to be simultaneously guilty in the eyes of the press of conspiring against him and colluding with him Confused

And let's not forget, she's only been accused by the bitter wee man of these things. And according to the Scottish Conservatives, she should step down forthwith Hmm

Both the Government and Government Cabinet Ministers have been found guilty /in the wrong (Prorogation, Priti Patel bullying, Matt Hancock awarding contracts to cronies) and they haven't even had a slap on the wrist, let alone considered resigning Angry

ListeningQuietly · 28/02/2021 17:08

If Scotland became independent and rejoined the EU it would be mid sized in the scale of things.

But Engerland without Scotland - half an island - would be diminished for ever.
Thanks Brexit.

Within the EU, both could rub along with Wales and Northern Ireland
making best use of subsidiarity
but the dumb arse Brexiters
blew the bloody doors off

TatianaBis · 28/02/2021 17:10

The whole thing is bizarre and very depressing for any Scottish women experiencing sex offences, particularly in government.

The release of recent private messages from SNP women discussing the case at Holyrood’s order - should have far more resoundingly condemned.

mrslaughan · 28/02/2021 17:14

Things not going so well

twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1365993471501348866?s=21

Westministers : Saving the Union
Westministers : Saving the Union
ListeningQuietly · 28/02/2021 17:19

MrsL
I have to say that Biden's Overseas team, led by Anthony Blinken are playing a blinder at the moment

  • refusing to talk to MBS
  • putting sanctions on his mates
  • refusing to supply non contracted spares for Saudi military kit
  • hitting an Iranian site that was targeting US troops but not others
  • upholding international deals the UK signed up to
  • supporting the new WTO head
  • supporting the WHO
all teeny executive decisions that kick the feet out from under wazzocks its what it was hoped he'd do and his boss has clearly given him free rein
DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 17:25

I have to say that Biden's Overseas team, led by Anthony Blinken are playing a blinder at the moment

They seem incredibly well briefed and coordinated. And so far pretty much everything that was suggested as part of Bidens approach seems to be accurate. Hence the UKs "unsurprise" at this development. Although if you missed this one, I have a feeling there will be a few more "unsurprises" in the coming months.

Chersfrozenface · 28/02/2021 17:27

@mrslaughan

Oh, dear.

US trade stance predicted by perspicacious posters on this board once the result of the Presidential election was clear.

Also, ex-colonies not rolling over at the behest of former imperial masters, predicted ditto absolutely ages ago.

ListeningQuietly · 28/02/2021 17:32

DGR
Blinken is NOT a friend of Brexit
snigger

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 17:48

@ListeningQuietly

DGR Blinken is NOT a friend of Brexit snigger
Oh, I know.

I try not to obsess, but ever since Biden won, I keep recalling that we (well I) suddenly were told that before the referendum, team Obama had determined that Brexit would hurt the US. Which is a strong word to use when you have a scale from "interest" to "present challenges" - it goes way further. And now, 5 years later, I can't help but feel the UK is going to be repeated asked "Why are you hurting the US".

Just remember - every US firm that invested in the UK as a means to exert influence over the EUs policy making has been shat on from a great height. That's not only a lot of companies, it's entire industry sectors. They are now having to recreate all of that in France and Germany and it won't be a cakewalk.

It's not so bad for the Googles, and Facebooks of the world - they're information flingers. But companies that make real shit might not be so relaxed. I wonder what their lobbying of POTUS looks like ?

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 17:50

Also, ex-colonies not rolling over at the behest of former imperial masters, predicted ditto absolutely ages ago.

Might have helped if some of the Boris Brexit Brigade had paid attention when (although I would lay good money it's more "if") they visited these places they only learned of from "Jewel In The Crown".

mrslaughan · 28/02/2021 17:57

I am in agreement with Prettybird and Tatiana about the Sturgeon and Salmond debacle. The media's framing of the result of the trial (I think Salmond claimed he was found innocent? In his evidence?) makes me deeply uncomfortable. I don't know ANY women who has not been sexually harassed once in their life (infact think you would be hard pressed to find someone it's only happened once too....) - he seems to me like so many men - who think it's almost their right (it's just abit if fun....).... and has righteous outrage that he has been pulled up on it. I think Sturgeon was in a loose/loose situation- if she hadn't done anything she would be - rightly - flamed.
And as for Ruth Davidson - her appearances around the media Friday absolutely disgusted me.... and the press - as we all know -let her getaway with being a shape shifting liar....

mrslaughan · 28/02/2021 17:59

The way the "colonies" are talked about by these Brexit politicians - is a real bugbear of mine..... probably because I come from one!!! Pleased to see they are refusing to becoming a colony all over again....

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 18:01

And as for Ruth Davidson

You mean Lady Ruth Davidson, surely. If Google is hoovering up everything we type, we may as well make it work for us. Make sure everyone knows that Lady Davidson will be lecturing Scotland on democracy from the English House of Lords. Although I suspect many people in Scotland already know that ...

Peregrina · 28/02/2021 18:32

I thought that the UK had only applied to join the Trans Pacific Partnership - there is no saying that they are forced to be admitted, is there? Also that the main reason behind it was because the USA was expected to rejoin.

But why is sacrificing sovereignty to countries literally half way across the globe a Good Thing, when trading easily with your neighbours is a Bad Thing?

ListeningQuietly · 28/02/2021 18:55

I thought that the UK had only applied to join the Trans Pacific Partnership - there is no saying that they are forced to be admitted,
But
but
but we are
SPESHUL
Wink

DGRossetti · 28/02/2021 19:08

@Peregrina

I thought that the UK had only applied to join the Trans Pacific Partnership - there is no saying that they are forced to be admitted, is there? Also that the main reason behind it was because the USA was expected to rejoin.

But why is sacrificing sovereignty to countries literally half way across the globe a Good Thing, when trading easily with your neighbours is a Bad Thing?

Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation members may accede to the TPP, as may any other jurisdiction to which existing TPP members agree. After an application for membership is received, a commission of parties to the treaty negotiates conditions for accession.

As long as the UK can't fuck it up for other members, there shouldn't be any problems joining.

prettybird · 28/02/2021 19:12

Make sure everyone knows that Lady Davidson will be lecturing Scotland on democracy from the English House of Lords.

Nicola always hammers that point in her response to Ruth Davidson's 4th question at FMQs, when she knows that she has the last word Grin

She is "... not going to be lectured about democracy by someone who will no longer submit herself to the people for selection "

Gronky · 28/02/2021 20:14

Maybe the SNP should drive around Scotland in a big (blue) bus with "We give £50 million a week to Westminster - let's use it to fund our NHS instead" on the side ?

Has the SNP ever published any specifics of how they'd reduce their deficit in line with the 2018 Sustainable Growth Commission report, in terms of where cuts to public spending would be made? I'm curious as to how they align it with their anti-austerity stance.

buckerrucker · 28/02/2021 20:35

Yes, I'm very concerned about how Scotland will cope financially if independence happens. And politically too - the SNP is so incompetent, at war with itself and uber-woke.
If feels very much like a repeat of Brexit, only with consequences which are predicted to be far far more serious.

Clavinova · 28/02/2021 20:43

Leave campaign made Brexit a “new religion” to win votes - University report finds.
Responding to the research, Liberal Democrats MP Alistair Carmichael [said] ...“There are plenty more nationalist prophets out there who want people to follow them on faith without asking questions."

Must be difficult for the SNP to claim that Brexit is a disaster, whilst simultaneously claiming that Scottish independence makes economic sense. Alastair Carmichael speaks here;

SNP leaders cannot claim with a straight face that this Brexit trade disruption is bad, but three times as much from independence would be good.

Alistair Carmichael is the Liberal Democrats home affairs spokesperson and the MP for Orkney and Shetland.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/why-scottish-independence-would-be-repeating-past-mistakes-brexit-alistair-carmichael-3126449

poll after poll is showing a majority supporting Independence

Until today;

No vote 'leads first Scottish independence poll in 22' amid Alex Salmond controversy.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/no-vote-leads-first-scottish-independence-poll-in-22-amid-alex-salmond-controversy-3149474

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