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Brexit

Westministers : Saving the Union

954 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2021 23:26

Apparently we need a tunnel. Just like we needed the £53 million failed Garden Bridge.

Nice little earner for anyone involved.

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49
Peregrina · 24/02/2021 10:00

It seems that the Isle of Man is negotiating its own shellfish agreement. Useless Eustace is not happy.

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 10:01

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/isle-of-man-jettisons-itself-from-uk-to-secure-fishing-agreement-with-eu-222046/

The Isle of Man has moved to jettison itself from the UK’s disastrous fisheries deal by striking new terms with the EU as a British Crown Dependency.

Individual discussions with Brussels has opened up avenues to allow EU vessels to fish in their waters as well as exempt exports of shellfish from the current ban on so-called bivalve molluscs which has left the Cornish fishing industry in tatters.

The industry is worth £20 million to the island annually.

Environment, food and agriculture minister Geoffrey Boot said maintaining access to EU markets for those products was a “key factor” for the island as it is “where 80 per cent of our catch goes” before the transition ended last year.

“If we’d lost that market overnight that would have been catastrophic for the fishing industry,” he added.

But not everyone is happy about the new arrangements.

The move was branded “petty” and “indefensible” by Environment Secretary George Eustice, who has had to face the music over export bans elsewhere.

Peregrina · 24/02/2021 10:23

A discussion here about how the UK may be in line for Swiss style ongoing negotiations.

It's hard to predict what will happen, but it was pointed out the Brexiters didn't consider the wider implications.

ListeningQuietly · 24/02/2021 10:35

As I say,
The penny is dropping at the speed of a magnet down a copper tube
but it is dropping

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 10:35

@Peregrina

A discussion here about how the UK may be in line for Swiss style ongoing negotiations.

It's hard to predict what will happen, but it was pointed out the Brexiters didn't consider the wider implications.

More project fear ?

If I am lucky enough that DS has kids (so you know he hasn't at the moment) I can easily imagine their kids having to have "Brexit" in their vocabulary. Much as we have "the war" in ours, despite (in may case) being born over a generation after it ended.

Part of the problem, of course, is that the UK isn't Switzerland. It's much much bigger with much much more going on. So any trading arrangement with our nearest neighbour (the EU) is bound to be fucking complex and dynamic.

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 10:38

[quote ListeningQuietly]As I say,
The penny is dropping at the speed of a magnet down a copper tube
but it is dropping

[/quote] .
Westministers : Saving the Union
FatCatThinCat · 24/02/2021 10:52

Ergo I am now totally disenfranchised everywhere, until my EU citizenship arrives.

Me too.

prettybird · 24/02/2021 11:11

The other thing that blog about Switzerland doesn't cover is the issue of FOM - the consequence on which resulted in the country backing away from the result of one of their many referendums. Hmm

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 11:14

@prettybird

The other thing that blog about Switzerland doesn't cover is the issue of FOM - the consequence on which resulted in the country backing away from the result of one of their many referendums. Hmm
Switzerland UK
prettybird · 24/02/2021 11:17

I know that. But it was going on about the Eurosceptics and not acknowledging that the Swiss are also pragmatic about the benefits - like freedom of movement and Erasmus. Confused

Unlike our twats. Angry

ListeningQuietly · 24/02/2021 11:18

Melassa
The way the UK treats its citizens abroad is disgraceful.
At least with my other blue passport I can call in the Marines
Wink

Peregrina · 24/02/2021 11:28

Switzerland doesn't kid itself that it has a Special relationship with the USA. Nor did it once have an Empire. Both still things informing the Brexiters behaviour.

I saw that Liz Truss wants us to sign trade deals with the rest of the world so that the EU can't 'bully' us with their exports. They haven't done all that well so far - according to the Brexiters there should have been a whole raft of them ready for signature on 1st January. They now seem to have gone quiet on that.

ListeningQuietly · 24/02/2021 13:45

So we have George Eustice lying on TV
Liz Truss telling us to buy lettuce from Japan
and all of the UK Govt denying the reality
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/24/brexit-trade-delays-getting-worse-uk-border-survey-finds

but all of the opposition parties - PARTICULARLY Labour
are studiously silent.

Nick Clegg cannot decide if he's up Zuckerberg's or Murdoch's backside

And Biden pointedly saying that Canada was the first country with whom he had a bilteral discussion

At least the frogs have had a good orgy in my pond
they cannot read the news

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 13:49

^but all of the opposition parties - PARTICULARLY Labour
are studiously silent.^

What's good for Labour may not be what's good for the UK - or England.

I think all political parties have been captured by Brexit and that's just they way it's going to be for a very long time.

If you are a prospective Tory/Lib/Lab MP (by which I mean looking to get a seat in 2024/2029) then you are not going to be backing any form of rejoin whatsoever.

Look how quickly the LibDems forgot about the EU. Almost as quickly as we forgot about them.

HannibalHayes · 24/02/2021 13:50

And here comes the government's latest wheeze to try and hide the debilitating effects of Brexshit. They're going to give our taxes to foreign companies to buy our goods...

ListeningQuietly · 24/02/2021 13:54

From Hannibal's link
Minister for Exports, Graham Stuart, said:
The UK is one of the world’s top five exporting nations, supporting well paid jobs in every region and nation across the country. We are determined that this should continue, so this new scheme from our world-leading export finance agency, UKEF, will help our exporters reach buyers they would otherwise miss - and build back stronger from the pandemic.
Hmm
Much of the UK "export earnings" are in Services
not sure where Credit Guarantees will come in useful there

ListeningQuietly · 24/02/2021 13:56

Interesting that the UK drops to 11th when you measure tangibles
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 13:57

@HannibalHayes

And here comes the government's latest wheeze to try and hide the debilitating effects of Brexshit. They're going to give our taxes to foreign companies to buy our goods...
You mean a state subsidy ?
dontcallmelen · 24/02/2021 15:13

.

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 16:06

Well fuck me with a fishfork.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-backing-sunderland-says-it-is-not-receiving-same-level-of-funding-outside-eu-222122/

Sunderland City Council leader Graeme Miller has accused the government of trying to sneak through a watered down replacement for European Union funding in a blistering attack.

The North East received £437 million out of the European Structural Investment Fund (ESIF) pre-Brexit between 2014 and 2020, but there are suspicions that the replacement UK Shared Prosperity Fund (SPF) is unlikely to live up to those numbers.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 16:16

Note that Cameron still deserves his place in infamy.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/24/boris-johnson-a-liar-who-will-seek-to-blame-brexit-costs-on-covid-says-diplomat

Boris Johnson is “an unrepentant and inveterate liar” who feels he is not subject to the same rules as others, Sylvie Bermann, the former French ambassador to the UK during the Brexit vote, says in a new book.

She also claims some Brexiters are consumed with hatred for Germany and gripped by a myth that they liberated Europe on their own, describing Brexit as a triumph of emotion over reason, won by a campaign full of lies in which negative attitudes to migration were exploited by figures such as Johnson and Michael Gove.

Bermann, who served as the French ambassador to the UK from 2014 to 2017 and has been one of the most senior diplomats in the French diplomatic service, including as ambassador to China and to Russia, assesses the British handling of the Covid pandemic as among the worst in the world alongside that of Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. She predicts Johnson will seek to use Covid to mask the true economic cost of Brexit on the UK economy.

Johnson, she says, comes from an Eton and Oxford University class that believes they are entitled to use language to provoke. Describing him as intelligent and charming, she says he uses “lies to embellish reality, as a game and as instrument of power. The ends justify the means. He has no rules.”

Asked at a Royal United Services Institute thinktank event about her description of him as an unrepentant liar, she said: “He would not object to being called that. He knows he is a liar. He has always played with that. He was fired from his first post for that reason.”

In her book, Goodbye Britannia, she seeks to define the psyche that led to Brexit. She describes “the partisans of Brexit as reciting a history in which the UK is never defeated, never invaded”. She suggests a country that considers it singlehandedly won the second world war, liberating the continent and deserving of gratitude.

Referencing the more than 22 million Russians who died in the war, she says “this does not disturb the discourse of the Brexiters who peddle the myth that the UK liberated Europe alone and needs no one”.

She adds that France does have a debt of gratitude to the British, but “it is right to remember that they were not alone and you cannot live with a history that stopped in June 1944”.

“The corollary of an England saving Europe,” she adds, “is a detestation of Germany and contempt for cowardice – the term is often used for those who allowed themselves to be occupied, not to mention collaborated.”

The British account of the second world war, relayed in films such as Dunkirk, she says, led to loss of confidence in the EU as an instrument of peace.

She admits she did not believe the Brexit referendum would be lost by David Cameron’s government, pointing out that both sides of the debate had told her the same. In retrospect, she viewed the defeat as the first crisis of electoral democracy, and the harbinger of the populism that has been followed through in the US and Europe.

“David Cameron was always telling other heads of government that he would win and he rejected any help from EU countries,” she told Rusi. She said that if Cameron had warned the EU that he was going to lose, Europe would have come up with a new offer on migration. British ministers told her that they might win with as much as 60% of the vote.

In the book, she asks: “How this country whose influence had been decisive in Brussels, which insolently rolled out the red carpet for French entrepreneurs and which Xi Jinping had elected in October 2015 as the gateway to Europe, at the dawn of a golden period, how has it undertaken to scuttle itself?”

She predicts: “Boris Johnson’s temptation will be to hide the bill for Brexit under the Covid carpet, valued at more than £200bn for 2020, almost as much as the United Kingdom’s total contribution to the European Union since its accession in 1973, which was £215bn.”

She says it is inevitable that the UK will struggle now to find influence outside the EU, and has a Scottish independence referendum hanging over its head.

She says she believes the EU would feel obliged to open talks with Scotland in the event of a referendum vote to leave the UK, but that is not the official EU position, partly due to pressure from Spain. Madrid fears the knock-on impact among Catalan separatists if an independent Scotland was allowed to join the EU.

Peregrina · 24/02/2021 16:23

Bermann has the measure of Johnson. Not that she's actually telling us anything that we didn't know.

DGRossetti · 24/02/2021 16:30

@Peregrina

Bermann has the measure of Johnson. Not that she's actually telling us anything that we didn't know.
I am eagerly awaiting a similarly long c'n'p about (a) Macron, (b) Merkel (c) Macron and Merkel (d) the Spanish Inquisition.

Place yer bets ...

Bee0808 · 24/02/2021 16:45

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!

Bee0808 · 24/02/2021 16:45

Sorry

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