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Brexit

Westministers : Saving the Union

954 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2021 23:26

Apparently we need a tunnel. Just like we needed the £53 million failed Garden Bridge.

Nice little earner for anyone involved.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Sostenueto · 19/02/2021 23:10

squidSorry to hear your sad news 🙏❤️💐

Peregrina · 19/02/2021 23:28

This is the Guardian's sub heading on the Lewis departure.

Key aide’s departure continues clearout of former Vote Leave staffers in Boris Johnson’s inner circle

Clear out of Vote Leave? Johnson getting ready to try to do a humungous U turn?

RedToothBrush · 19/02/2021 23:48

@Peregrina

This is the Guardian's sub heading on the Lewis departure.

Key aide’s departure continues clearout of former Vote Leave staffers in Boris Johnson’s inner circle

Clear out of Vote Leave? Johnson getting ready to try to do a humungous U turn?

Frost is a hardliner who did the deal. No. Why would he uturn?

Its a fresh crop of die hard leavers thats all imo

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Peregrina · 20/02/2021 00:23

Johnson doing the U turn is what I meant, and then hanging Frost out to dry, because the deal is rubbish.

RedToothBrush · 20/02/2021 00:54

I think the situation is rather more complex.

Someone suggested to me earlier that Frist is a new Cummings figure but i dont think that either.

I shall explain. (This is rather lengthy and a slightly tedious story)

So these are tonights curious threads from Steven Swinford and Robert Peston:

Steven Swinford @steven_swinford
BREAKING

Oliver Lewis has quit Number 10 as head of the Union unit

Lewis - a Dominic Cummings ally - felt his position was being made 'untenable' by others in No 10

Lewis worked with Boris Johnson on Vote Leave, his leadership campaign & helped strike the Brexit deal
.
This is what's being claimed:

* Oliver Lewis accused by Carrie Symonds & Henry Newman of briefing against Gove over Frost power-play

* PM called Lewis into office yesterday & 'bollocked him' over alleged leaks

* Lewis strongly denied claims and quit

* No comment from No 10

This last week we learned that Simone Finn and Henry Newman were being brought into senior roles in No 10

It's been chaos ever since

Lord Frost nearly quit, Oliver Miles has quit, others are thinking about quitting

Allies of Newman and Symonds are strongly denying that they had any role in briefing against Oliver Lewis

They say it's 'total rubbish'

Carnage in No 10 tonight...

Summary of where we are:

* Oliver Lewis has quit as head of Union Unit after being accused by PM of briefing against Michael Gove - something he strongly denies

* There's claims Symonds & Newman levelled the accusation originally - something their allies say is 'total rubbish'

Robert Peston @peston
According to a source, the departure of Oliver Lewis - or “Sonic” - from Downing St was because “Carrie wants [Henry] Newman running the Union” - ie the unit charged with keeping Scotland in the UK, which was Lewis’s job. This shows not that Carrie Symonds is necessarily...

calling the shots. In practice these are the PM’s decisions. But this framing of what happened shows that the tensions within Downing Street that led to the departures of Cummings and Cain have not gone away. I am hearing other Downing St aides are also feeling uneasy with...

the new order. And it is widely believed that the unexpected decision to put David Frost in the cabinet was a pre-emptive move to keep him.

A Downing St source responded: “Newman not brought in to run Union unit. He’s a senior special adviser working for the PM”. Which does not mean Lewis felt he had the autonomy he wanted

And same Downing St source: “not true about Carrie and Newman running Union unit”. Which is denying something I was pretty careful not to say.

——---------

There a lot more going on here from what i can see.

Cummins departure is naturally going to have created a power vacuum at no10. And power vacuums are very bad things because they lead to power struggles.

Symonds was thought to be instrumental in Cummings going, and now she pops up again here.

Two days ago the news of Frost bizarre appointment spawned these tweets

Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne
NEW: David Frost is joining Boris Johnson’s Cabinet! The peer has been appointed a minister at the Cabinet Office, effective March 1.

Frost will also chair the partnership council overseeing the UK-EU trade deal and oversee reform to "maximise on the opportunities of Brexit"

David Frost has had four jobs this year and it’s only February:

- Chief Brexit negotiator
- National Security Advisor (never took up role)
- No10 advisor on Brexit/International policy
- Minister at the Cabinet Office

Odd huh?

Stewart Wood @StewartWood
So David Frost will "take forward our relationship with the EU after Brexit" not just as an envoy, but with Cabinet rank. Many congratulations to him. And many commiserations to the Foreign Office, who used to run foreign policy,

One of the universal truths of being Prime Minister: creating special jobs to solve clashes between members of your team ALWAYS creates new clashes between members of your team that will require sackings to solve them.

As it is indeed proving tonight....

Anna Isaac @Annaisaac
Some takes from range of sources on Frost's appointment:
(1) if he got the deal, he knows best how to make it work
(2) were industry bodies lobbying the wrong man? Many spent hours with Gove
(3) what will it mean long term for coordination of foreign affairs and trade?

Sam Coates Sky @SamCoatesSky
Hmmm. Lord Frost’s appointment as a minister a sign of disharmony not harmony, I’m told.

- Frost was unhappy with Cummings/Cain going. Now factional tensions revive after Gove allies Henry Newman and Simone Finn arrive in No10, plus Frost miffed at Gove brexit committee role

- Notice how Frost has largely a foreign policy job post Brexit - Lord Frost will lead the UK's institutional and strategic relationship with the EU, sources say - but he is Cabinet Office not the FCDO.

Some sources suggest tensions with Raab (although others challenge this)

“Safe to say there is some unhappiness in the building on that one” says one source

Unhappiness presumably soothed with surprise the promotion

PS insert boilerplate denial of 1. tensions 2. squabbling 3. threats to resign and 4. factions here...

One gvt source gets in touch on Frost move:

Solves quite a few tricky problems though. As a spad he can't direct officials. As a minister he can

Additional Kremlinology not for faint hearted:

Source claims John Bew was unhappy with Frost getting wide ranging international affairs brief. HMG responses to committee inquiries in to the integrated review (mostly preXmas) were peppered with John's name. Frost hardly mentioned

Source: John Bew is part of Team Gove.

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
Massive palace intrigue after @BorisJohnson appoints @DavidGHFrost to run the EU-UK trading relationship - just two days after @michaelgove was made interim UK rep on Partnership Council. Gossip to follow but for anyone hoping for easier EU-UK relations, this isn't good news.

Sam Coates Sky @SamCoatesSky
But equally, MPs believe the Michael Gove had a totally different approach to Lord Frost - compromiser vs hardline

Plus - does the government now have one too many cabinet ministers? Who will lose their salary? Tune in for the next instalment...

lisa o'carroll @lisaocarroll
David Frost to take over from Michael Gove as joint chair of the UK-EU joint committee. He cements his position as the most important post Brexit figure taking the role as joint chair of the partnership council, which is the top political structure post Brexit.

Simon Usherwood @Usherwood
Tidies this up, but Gove only announced as chair yesterday, which suggests Frost's elevation hasn't been long in the making

——---------

So it sounds more like Frost was team Cummings and has been unhappy since his departure as have several others. This group has been most hardline.

The other 'team' so to speak have been the 'compromisers' (and i use this term with a massive pinch of salt). These are Team Gove, Henry Newman and the PMs fucking Girlfriend.

Johnson sounds like he is desperate to keep hold of unhappy Frost - for some reason he feels he needs him. But the attempt to keep him seems to be causing more problems that foreseen. To put it mildly.

What i find curious is how Carrie Symonds is being referred to in tonights briefings to the press and Gove seems to be hardly mentioned. He was 2 days ago.

This suggests that Symonds is somehow working against what her boyfriend wants and is trying to do. Do we believe this? Its possible but thats a rather interesting domestic on the cards which I'm not entirely convinced of.

So I don't think its a Cummings 2. My suspicion is Johnson is somewhat lost without Cummings still, and had leant heavily on Frost since he went. But Cummings going also weakened Frost's position and made him uphappy. Johnson is trying to rectify this but there are parties working to stop this for some reason.

Does this include Symonds? Or is she a good way to get to the PM's head. Or take a swipe at him:

See article from November

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/29/carrie-symonds-profile-boris-johnson-fiancee-dominic-cummings

Cummings lot apparently called her names including 'Cersei', a reference to the scheming Game of Thrones character and Princess Nut Nut and this is alleged to have been the thing that ultimately led to Cummings sacking...

But my feeling is someone is playing silly buggers.

I very much get the impression that something is rotten in the state of Denmark and all these references to Symonds are more swipes at Johnson being unable to lead himself.

Is it Frost seeking to fill the power vacuum here? Unlikely. Is it Symonds herself? Possibly but i dont think so. So who is it?

When the story broke about Frost getting Gove job, both were very quick to say nice things about the other.

Gove was happy that a job given to him less than 24 hrs before was given to Frost who was an ally of Cummings and Lewis who had apparently been briefing against him?

Really?

Why am I struggling so much with this?

This all centres around NI. Frost was given orders to get tough with the EU over NI. A no compromise approach inline with the DUP mood and hints of article 16 thrown in.

Westministers : Saving the Union
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RedToothBrush · 20/02/2021 01:18

Btw, anyone want to give some odds on whether Symonds and Johnson stay together?

Its all sounding a lot like the court of Henry VIII with all this whispering going on.

Only difference is Johnson doesn't have a problem fathering kids.

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SwedishEdith · 20/02/2021 01:27

@RedToothBrush

Btw, anyone want to give some odds on whether Symonds and Johnson stay together?

Its all sounding a lot like the court of Henry VIII with all this whispering going on.

Only difference is Johnson doesn't have a problem fathering kids.

Hence my speculating on whether Newman was gay. I've always felt it was a calculated relationship. Harry Cole breathlessly reporting on Johnson makes it even odder.
BlackeyedSusan · 20/02/2021 02:23

So sorry squid.

DGRossetti · 20/02/2021 08:22

@RedToothBrush

Btw, anyone want to give some odds on whether Symonds and Johnson stay together?

Its all sounding a lot like the court of Henry VIII with all this whispering going on.

Only difference is Johnson doesn't have a problem fathering kids.

It's very continental to have a public mistress, isn't it ?
RedToothBrush · 20/02/2021 09:06

Sam Coates Sky @samcoatessky
One gvt source describes it as “non-stop psychodrama” in parts of government at the moment

An ally of Boris Johnson talks of tensions with between some in No10 and Michael Gove - unresolved after his effective demotion this week.

The murder of weapon of choice inside Number 10, I’m told, is to accuse your opponent of leaking to the media

Several sources confirm Oliver Lewis was accused of leaking but I understand he emphatically denied it.

But is out now.

I’m told the specific thing Oliver Lewis was accused of is leaking “unpleasant” stuff about Michael Gove being on the way out

His allies deny it

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Peregrina · 20/02/2021 10:33

Btw, anyone want to give some odds on whether Symonds and Johnson stay together?

I very much don't expect them to stay together. Princess Beatrice managed to fit in her wedding despite lockdowns, and other couples have managed it, so why haven't Johnson and Symonds?

I also don't somehow see Symonds as the power behind the throne.

What exactly is happening though? Beats me. I note that the EU Parliament has still not passed the legislation that Johnson and Co now are keen to amend.

Eve · 20/02/2021 10:51

...and in the meantime with the all the headlines focused about Carrie & Lord Frost etc etc , Hancock acting unlawfully is not the headlines it needs to be.

ListeningQuietly · 20/02/2021 10:54

I note that the EU Parliament has still not passed the legislation that Johnson and Co now are keen to amend.
Indeed.
When Frost marches in to demand the EU change the rules
I can see them leaning back in their chairs and staring at the ceiling Grin

PawFives · 20/02/2021 10:58

Sorry, I’m being thick but where does Newman being gay fit in? Agree with the court of Henry VIII analogy though.

Peregrina · 20/02/2021 11:09

But what do Scottish voters think of Oliver Lewis's departure? I suspect it won't make the slightest bit of difference which southern England Tory is put in the job.

prettybird · 20/02/2021 11:24

Who? Wink

Peregrina · 20/02/2021 11:32

Is that correct that Biden has just been to Munich? Wasn't the UK (England) supposed to be his first port of call across the Atlantic?

ListeningQuietly · 20/02/2021 11:32

@Peregrina

Is that correct that Biden has just been to Munich? Wasn't the UK (England) supposed to be his first port of call across the Atlantic?
Online conference
ListeningQuietly · 20/02/2021 11:49

All the presentations are here
securityconference.org/en/msc-special-edition-2021/

Peregrina · 20/02/2021 11:51

Just coming on to post that, but then the connection failed.
I saw the Expresses headline "Joe Biden IGNORES Brexit Britain in Munich speech"

Meanwhile the Irish Times says:
"Biden repudiates Trump foreign policy in forceful Munich speech"

I can see Johnson was involved but was literally way down the list.

Did they really expect anything else? Well, yes, they expected that Trump would win.

ListeningQuietly · 20/02/2021 11:56

Yup, MN servers are VERY glitchy this morning

Interesting that Johnson was on last - when all the important speakers were in the early part of the day
afterthought springs to mind

DGRossetti · 20/02/2021 12:50

@ListeningQuietly

Yup, MN servers are VERY glitchy this morning

Interesting that Johnson was on last - when all the important speakers were in the early part of the day
afterthought springs to mind

I am sure Clav will be along soon (severs permitting) to c'n'p something to show that a POTUS once left the most important person till last ... like Trump and Putin for example.

In fact Biden putting Johnson where Putin would have been for Trump would make sense. Although if Biden had spoken to Putin, there would be no need to speak to Boris.

FatCatThinCat · 20/02/2021 16:44

Interesting news on the EU v AstraZeneca dispute. Turns out that contrary to the messaging in the UK, they we'ren't first to complete a deal with AZ. The EU signed their contract on 27th August, the UK signed theirs the day after, on the 28th. The EU paid for their vaccines in full up front, whereas the UK are paying as they go, 30 days after delivery. Puts a different slant on the EU"s anger.

guyverhofstadt.medium.com/two-contracts-lots-of-questions-and-not-nearly-enough-vaccines-cf1c2380cf29

DGRossetti · 20/02/2021 16:50

[quote FatCatThinCat]Interesting news on the EU v AstraZeneca dispute. Turns out that contrary to the messaging in the UK, they we'ren't first to complete a deal with AZ. The EU signed their contract on 27th August, the UK signed theirs the day after, on the 28th. The EU paid for their vaccines in full up front, whereas the UK are paying as they go, 30 days after delivery. Puts a different slant on the EU"s anger.

guyverhofstadt.medium.com/two-contracts-lots-of-questions-and-not-nearly-enough-vaccines-cf1c2380cf29[/quote]
Might explain why the UK government was so quiet over it all ...

ListeningQuietly · 20/02/2021 17:11

And maybe if Nigel Farage had bothered to attend the EU Fisheries meetings
while taking the cash for being a member of the committee
his supporters might better understand the rules he signed off
news.sky.com/story/brexit-uk-fishermen-fear-losing-their-homes-as-export-ban-bites-12223329
Hmm