Westminstenders: What the winds bring

[RedToothBrush]

The next few weeks are crucial. Eu talks, covid handling, the US election and any other unexpected events (its nearly November, lets face it will probably be the weather).

It feels a little like the car crash in slow motion is about to hit the wall of reality. I guess that just means all there is left to do is to brace for impact.

(They were picked this weekend - will probably be able to pick another nice bunch next week - so that will be into November ).

Joseph Timan @josephtiman
NEW: The North West Nightingale which reopens this week will be used for non-Covid patients and any hospitals wanting to use its beds must supply their own staff #LDReporter
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/nightingale-hospital-reopen-this-week-19176292.amp

That will be hospitals other staff then....

I can't see that working RE: Nightingale. Some staff already travel a fair way to work, try doubling or trebling that journey.

Its easy to get the army to throw together a bailey bridge
its harder to have the troops to hold it

Nightingale hospitals are similar

That’s not fair. We have been working our arses off to keep the place going.

It might not be fair to the staff, but from the point of view of my daughter and her friends - who had a total of 2 hours of online class during spring, and none at all during their "distance learning" weeks this semester, it is very hard to be positive about the way French universities have handled this.

The students see unsupported teaching staff who weren't given so much as a Zoom licence by their employer, and an administration that has apparently failed to make any serious plans for distance learning.

I'm sure that individual teachers are working hard; this is an institutional failure not a failure by individuals (my daughter has a high opinion of most of her teachers).

More generally the latest French lockdown has the potential to be a bit of farce. My small town has about 4000 middle and high school students most of whom pour into the town centre on buses at 8am and leave at 5-6pm. The school buildings aren't big enough for all the high schoolers to be on site at once, the canteen doesn't have the capacity to feed them all. So working age adults will not be allowed to leave their homes to do perfectly safe outdoor activities, while the town centre will be full of teenagers buying sandwiches at the local Carrefour.

As regulars know I've been mostly supportive of the French govt but they've completely lost me here ....

@pussycatinboots

I can't see that working RE: Nightingale. Some staff already travel a fair way to work, try doubling or trebling that journey.

Its the most ridiculous idea ever. It'll be interesting to see how the Manchester Evening News Cover it.

It means that the most provincial trusts (and Liverpool) are even more disadvantaged. Remembering that Liverpool Hospitals are already struggling with staff absences due to or related to covid running at 7%...

@Mistigri that pretty much also describes our lockdown in Ireland. Prioritising schools while reducing the overall contacts in the population by adults staying at home except for essential purposes.

Today this was reported:

'COVID-19 is found to have spread significantly within fewer than 10 schools in the State, public health authorities believe.
While there have been a total of 110 recorded clusters or outbreaks detected in schools since they reopened in late August, authorities say transmission in most cases is likely to have happened outside school settings'

Not sure how convinced we all are - but they are pushing the message hard that schools are safe - masks compulsory while inside secondary school buildings.

But secondary teachers have voted for industrial action unless safety concerns addressed.

they are pushing the message hard that schools are safe - masks compulsory while inside secondary school buildings.

I think the risk of transmission in the classroom is manageable as long as everyone wears masks. It's not zero risk, but the risk-benefit ratio is probably acceptable from a public health POV.

The gaping hole in the plan is how and where you feed the kids...

The gaping hole in the plan is how and where you feed the kids...

This is the main reason my kids' school is in hybrid rather than fully-open mode. When not wearing masks they need to be 6' apart, and they just can't do that in school, especially in winter.

So for now they go into school twice a week, eat 6' apart in their homeroom, or the gym, or outside if the weather's OK. The rest of the time, when wearing masks, they are allowed to be as close as 3' apart.

Some schools are fully open, but they tend to be the schools with big buildings and not so many students.

1 positive case so far, and 15 students have had to isolate, out of 2,000.

[quote Focalpoint]@Mistigri that pretty much also describes our lockdown in Ireland. Prioritising schools while reducing the overall contacts in the population by adults staying at home except for essential purposes.

Today this was reported:

'COVID-19 is found to have spread significantly within fewer than 10 schools in the State, public health authorities believe.
While there have been a total of 110 recorded clusters or outbreaks detected in schools since they reopened in late August, authorities say transmission in most cases is likely to have happened outside school settings'

Not sure how convinced we all are - but they are pushing the message hard that schools are safe - masks compulsory while inside secondary school buildings.

But secondary teachers have voted for industrial action unless safety concerns addressed. [/quote]
But secondary teachers have voted for industrial action unless safety concerns addressed.

And more pay. As usual.

Teachers have perfectly reasonable safety concerns IMO. Just because there may be a public health benefit to keeping schools open (ie the overall risk of closing them is higher than the risk of keeping them open) doesn't mean that there is no risk to individuals.

Teachers are very much in the front line here - don't think it's appropriate to insinuate that they are in it for the money and I think governments generally have shown very little concern for their welfare.

the students see unsupported teaching staff who weren't given so much as a Zoom licence by their employer, and an administration that has apparently failed to make any serious plans for distance learning

We spent a lot of the summer planning. All of the material is on the moodle, she should have been using that in the weeks she was not in.

And more pay. As usual.

Like MPs, you mean? Teachers at least deserve parity - as do all public servants.

This means MPs, some of whom are working from home, will get an additional £3,360 on top of their salary of £81,932.

metro.co.uk/2020/10/09/mps-to-get-3300-pay-rise-as-coronavirus-puts-millions-of-jobs-at-risk-13395702/

This is good, on reducing the risks of aerosol transmission

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Mistigri

So working age adults will not be allowed to leave their homes to do perfectly safe outdoor activities, while the town centre will be full of teenagers

Sounds like the situation in many French towns, but logistically if you want to keep face to face education going I don't see there's much choice..

Of course the precise details of the French restrictions are going to be, and in particular what working age adults will or will not be allowed to do, will not be known until later today.

Lockdown across most of Spain now. Here in Andalucía in the south 3 provinces are shut and everyone confined to their towns and villages. The region is also closed, no coming into or leaving. For the next two weeks. 5 other regions have imposed similar restrictions.

news.sky.com/story/brexit-plea-to-avoid-devastating-no-deal-as-uk-car-industry-sees-worst-september-in-25-years-12117498

news.sky.com/story/brexit-plea-to-avoid-devastating-no-deal-as-uk-car-industry-sees-worst-september-in-25-years-12117498

Ooops

@pussycatinboots - Like MPs, you mean? Teachers at least deserve parity - as do all public servants.

A pay rise for British MPs isn't really relevant to Irish teachers.

@Mistigri - Teachers are very much in the front line here - don't think it's appropriate to insinuate that they are in it for the money and I think governments generally have shown very little concern for their welfare.

I agree with you wrt their safety concerns. And if that was what they were threatening industrial action over, I would support it. However, they are threatening strike action if their pay demands are not met, in addition to the safety concerns. The public appear livid over that.

My ds had next to no teaching when schools were closed in March. Only one of his 8 teachers did any online classes, and she only started doing 1 class a week when he asked. The others set minimal work and then emailed solutions. Only one actually corrected and gave feedback. He had about 1 hour's worth of work a day. Based on discussions with the school, I know he did all the work set.

Some schools were excellent but many others were similar to his. In Ireland, it seems it was mainly left to individual teachers to decide how to engage, with no school wide approach.

He's in leaving cert this year (A level equivalent) so really doesn't need any more disruption.

@Mistigri

they are pushing the message hard that schools are safe - masks compulsory while inside secondary school buildings.

I think the risk of transmission in the classroom is manageable as long as everyone wears masks. It's not zero risk, but the risk-benefit ratio is probably acceptable from a public health POV.

The gaping hole in the plan is how and where you feed the kids...

I think it depends A LOT on the school.

My dcs are currently at a naice private school. They have space. Plenty of space to have each bubble to stay together at lunch time. Children were never a,lowed to bring a packed lunch so the canteen is big enough to accommodate a whole year. They’ve staggered meal times and made slight modifications to the time table to allow everyone to get through lunch.
There has been some cases at school but very few.

Compare that the the state school they were at 2 years ago. Both of my dcs still have friends there. It’s chaos. Lunch time was already mayhem before. Still the case now. No space for children to sit and be 2metres apart. Those who take lunch with them were allowed to stay in classrooms before. Not anymore. Everyone has to wait outside during lunch time. So nowhere to sit to be able to eat. And more importantly nowhere to wait during lunch break of it starts raining. Cue for children to spend lunch time in the toilet 🤮🤮 instead. Or to gather in the parts of the school where they are vaguely protected.
Result: covid is rife. Half of the school has been sent home and there are many many teachers who caught the virus too. Incl one of my friends who is teaching there.

I don’t think that in that last school they actually really THOUGHT about lunch time and what to do with the kids. They just assumed they would be outside throughout break time. In the north of England. During the autumn and winter 😂😂. It was the easy answer. Or maybe that was simply paying lip service to it. The same way they did when they said there would be a staggered arrival of pupils at school. As if pupils could arrive at a very specific time when most of them are arriving by bus or been dropped by car. Cue for big groups of pupils waiting outside. But they have a staggered start and no mixing of the year groups (when they are actually going through the school gates)

Snippy remarks about Irish teachers are entirely irrelevant to this thread.

Btw Misti I think what you are describing in France is similar to what I saw at our state school.
The school is set up to have x number of pupils at once in the school and y number eating lunch. The facilities are not just not there to accommodate all of them at once when they have been designed knowing all classes have a different timetable, gaps etc...