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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/10/2020 12:52

I think that there may be a run on tinned tomatoes and pasta coming. Pizza will no longer have mozzarella in 2021.

On the plus side turnips are in season.

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prettybird · 16/10/2020 16:29

In terms of Leavers, there is also LouiseCollins28 who usually posts thoughtful contributions that add to the conversation (even though I also always disagree with her) - although she had a recent aberration with some nonsense about Arts type jobs that wasn't worthy of any respect whatsoever.

And there's some person who likes to copy and paste screeds of stuff and expects us to read what he or she has copied and pasted I don't Wink

In amongst the many funny meme's rejigging the Government's crass, ill judged and insensitive attempt to get people to retrain, this one makes a serious point.

Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/10/2020 16:43

What is all this nonsense about "Australian terms"? Australia doesn't have a trade deal with the EU Confused

RedToothBrush · 16/10/2020 16:50

Ian Dunt @IanDunt
Johnson is currently managing to fill sentences with two to three lies or pieces of misinformation. It's almost impressive.

"They don't seem to want to progress a free trade agreement [false, they're coming for a meeting next week]...

... that was pretty clear from the conclusions of the summit [it wasn't]... they don't want to go any further, so unless that fundamentally changes we'll have to come out on Australian terms [this does not exist]".

The Olympics of bullshit just straight-up spewing out his mouth.

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prettybird · 16/10/2020 16:52

It's the Emperor's New Clothes. They think that they can con people saying that it's a "deal" because it has the word "deal" in it is enough Confused

Well, it worked for the Emperor - until it didn't Grin

SabrinaThwaite · 16/10/2020 17:01

@QuentinWinters

Yes, where is the brexit Arms?
Reckon they decamped to Reddit or something.

They were struggling with understanding why their threads on MN kept getting deleted.

bmachine · 16/10/2020 17:03

Can i just join in here as noone in rl wants to engage with me about what an utter shit show we are living through. When will this black mirror episode end

LouiseCollins28 · 16/10/2020 17:04

I’m still around and about on here, I’ve been rather busy today. Shout at me if it helps.

ListeningQuietly · 16/10/2020 17:05

bmachine
Pull up a chair. The sun is nearly over the yard arm. Smile

Peregrina · 16/10/2020 17:11

Perhaps you would like to tell us what you think of Johnson's No Dea Louise? You know, the one which was Oven Ready back last December. Maybe he didn't realise that you had to a) turn the oven on, b) but the dish inside the oven to cook.

ListeningQuietly · 16/10/2020 17:12

For once Chris Grey missed the big news by posting his blog at 8.15 am !
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

prettybird · 16/10/2020 17:13

@Peregrina

Perhaps you would like to tell us what you think of Johnson's No Dea Louise? You know, the one which was Oven Ready back last December. Maybe he didn't realise that you had to a) turn the oven on, b) but the dish inside the oven to cook.
c) understand that cooking is not alchemy Wink What you get out is directly related to what you put in Grin
LouiseCollins28 · 16/10/2020 17:20

Not sure what I can say tbh. I thought the “oven ready” bit was always about WA mk2 which came into effect in January. What the shape the ‘future relationship’ would take was to be negotiated after that.

Not sure what I can add. I have a view on the negotiations but I’m not convinced that my sharing that today will be helpful to any of us.

Miljea · 16/10/2020 17:22

@ListeningQuietly

Copied from the Comments on this BBC story www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54566897

The government have now started construction of their new theme park in Kent to promote their new gaming idea. The idea of the game is you hide your lorry among 7000 other lorries for 3 days and then see if you can find it again.
The game is called:
TRUCK AND TRACE
PS. Don't forget to bring your Kent passport or you won't be allowed to play.

Did I read that there's a petition going around urging the lorry park to be called Farage's Garage.....?

The80sweregreat · 16/10/2020 17:26

Bmachine Very few people I know like to engage about brexit. It's seen as boring or already 'sorted out. '
I had given up on it myself because of Covid but today's news of a no deal has really depressed me. It's not an Australian deal at all , it's no deal. How relaxed they seem about it is a bit astonishing.
No wonder Dom ,or someone , got Tony Abbott on board !

KonTikki · 16/10/2020 17:26

Farage's Garage's ...
Excellent 😄

SonjaMorgan · 16/10/2020 17:29

chng.it/SLMd4RqBpT

SonjaMorgan · 16/10/2020 17:29

Sorry posted too soon. That is the petition to rename the lorry park.

RedToothBrush · 16/10/2020 17:30

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
End of a long week in #Brexit world. But next week, after this week's chest-beating will be key.

Can this move now? Or is it stuck? It's not about fish, ultimately, it's about LPF/Governance and what 'strings' the UK can accept in exchange for a 'zero/zero' FTA. /1

So @BorisJohnson say he "only wants Canada-style" deal, but actually CETA took years to negotiate because it was a line-by-line deal, with tariffs and quotas that opens a can of worms on competing EU27 interest. The UK actually wants a quick n dirty zero/zero deal. So.../2

By opting not to extend #Brexit transition period, that "real" Canada-like FTA is off the table.

The squeeze is on and while the EU will move on fish, it will ultimately only do a deal with the "commensurate" (see Political Declaration) levels of LPF. And there lies the row. /3

There is still a decent gap between two sides on what is "commensurate", not helped by the trust issues raised by UK decision to re-write Withdrawal Agreement (Irish Protocol), and those "strings" the EU wants attaching are neuralgic to UK Brexit believers /4

So what now?

Well, we wait and see if next weeks "talks" are real and can build on whats already been agreed on State Aid, where progress does seem to have been made. But both sides have to get "real".

If not, we're stuck and risk is this all peters out into no deal /5

Given how much of the 'nuts n bolts' has already been agreed or is being agreed (on ro-ro traffic, and trucking permits and blah, blah) it would be almost inconceivable that that would should be chucked away, or at least put on 'ice' by a no deal /6

But on the really core LPF/governance stuff the EU believes that it has Johnson in a corner (partly of his own making) and ultimately assumes he'll have to concede; and frankly, given #COVID__19 and economy, they may be right. /7

But as we saw this week, there are dangers in over-estimating how far the UK side will go. There really should be a deal; but that doesn't mean this can't all go wrong. (And UKIM move means if it does, it'll be messy).

On that cheery note mes #Brexit braves, bon weekend. ENDS

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borntobequiet · 16/10/2020 17:31

Interview with Mohammed Iqbal of Pendle Council. Councils caved under government threats of withdrawing any financial help if they didn’t cooperate. They asked for some money to support business, government offered much less and then threatened none unless they went into Tier 3. I can see why Andy Burnham isn’t folding.

CrunchyNutNC · 16/10/2020 17:32

the80sweregreat yes many people I know aren't really bothered, they tend to claim "We've left and none of the bad stuff you predicted has happened! " and it's thoroughly depressing.

The80sweregreat · 16/10/2020 17:41

I don't often come on here as they are all very knowledgeable ' and my own knowledge is pretty scant to be fair!
I have learnt a lot from all the brexit threads over the years. The news do not go into enough details.
I thought that Boris looked smug in his brexit interview: this is what Dominic and others wanted really. Tony Abbott is a snake and he is also pushing all this.
Calling it an Australian deal speaks volumes really.
So totally depressing.

unmarkedbythat · 16/10/2020 17:46

Even if the oven ready bit was about the WA, haven't we just passed legislation which says we will breach that if we want to?

I really wanted to be wrong about all this, I really did hope that at this point these threads would be full of us remainers having to eat humble pie and leavers saying see, told you so, really good deal agreed.

DGRossetti · 16/10/2020 18:02

Just a thought ...

Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen
RedToothBrush · 16/10/2020 18:02

@borntobequiet

Interview with Mohammed Iqbal of Pendle Council. Councils caved under government threats of withdrawing any financial help if they didn’t cooperate. They asked for some money to support business, government offered much less and then threatened none unless they went into Tier 3. I can see why Andy Burnham isn’t folding.
I should point out the difference between reporting of this locally and nationally.

Nationally Burnham is being blamed souly for the row.

Yet locally its being pointed out the problem is cross party. Most notably Bolton which is a Tory Council and has 2 (out of 3) Tory MPs.

One, Chris Green, resigned from his government role as Parliamentary Private Secretary in the Department for Education over the handling of it. He opposes T3.

He said: "The main point is that Bolton's been through the Greater Manchester lockdown for ten weeks, three weeks of which was a more extreme economic lockdown, which really caused a lot of people hardship.

"You'd expect having such an extreme lockdown that the transmission rate would decrease significantly, instead we just saw it rocket up. It clearly failed and the government should take account of that and their approach should reflect that reality. Instead, the government seems to be set on doing a repeat of the last six months.

His argument is that he is yet to see evidence that localised T3 restrictions will actually work because they didn't appear to when they were applied to his constituency previously.

Then you have Graham Brady. By all account the Manchester call yesterday started with him going in saying that if it was imposed he would go legal.

Here's just one tweet on the subject.

Daniel Hewitt @DanielHewittITV
Hearing it was Tory MPs “leading the charge” against the govt on call between Helen Whateley and Greater Manc MPs. They heavily criticised “the lack of consultation and lack of financial support.” Worth noting some of them didn’t even get the email inviting them to the briefing.

Brady also spent yesterday talking to the media about how the case for t3 hadn't been made.

Speaking to Times Radio, Sir Graham Brady, Tory MP for Altrincham and Sale West, said it would be “very foolish” of the government to go against Andy Burnham and put the area into a Tier 3 lockdown.

“The danger is if you try to do these things without consent people lose patience very quickly, we have a very clear demonstration of that”, he said.

William Wragg is the Tory MP in question who was livid yesterday about the meeting and not being invited to it.

Reading between the lines about what happened yesterday, this is what I think happened:

Before the meeting the media had been briefed everywhere that Manchester were going into T3. DURING the media it was being tweeted by the media that the Manchester MPs had been TOLD that Manchester was going into T3. Then as the meeting was finishing it suddenly became apparent that the government had somehow changed their minds and backed down.

And since then Andy Burnham has been repeatedly blamed.

But I don't think this is the case at all. Both Labour and Conservative representatives said during the course of the meeting they were considering legal action.

You also have to put into context the lack of support Manchester feels its had ALREADY with regards to financial support and priority for testing and money for local track and trace.

Bolton is one of those councils who has had to fund their own local track and trace without funding from central government.

All these councils now have a massive financial black hole looming. There had already been an issue as during the early stages of the panademic they had been told they would recieve as much money for fighting covid as they needed, only for the government to renege on its word and only cough up a fraction of the money.

So the reality of the situation is that G Manchester is an extremely precarious finanical position which the government refuse to properly acknowledge. This will have a massive impact on the city's ability to deliver any kind of services in the next year.

But the government regards negogiating as something where you tell people what to do and are completely tone deaf as to what they say in return, with the strategy to bully or bulldoze their way. As we've seen from Brexit negogitions.

The trouble with this approach is the inconvient wall of reality.

I think that ultimately G Manchester (and by that I mean Burnham, Councils and MPs of all colours) is at a point where it can't just accept whats on offer because the crisis is so deep after the initial lockdown and months already of local lockdown.

There is this rising sense of not just frustration but outright anger.

So Johnson's response has been simply to smear Burnham and say that Manchester should 're-engage constructively'. When the converse is actually true.

Manchester has previously already issued open letters asking for more local control and powers which has been ignored. It was constructive and make some very valid points.

It is deeply annoying that how this is being reported nationally totally neglects what has actually happened and who is involved in protesting the imposing of T3.

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ListeningQuietly · 16/10/2020 18:06

DGR
I like that.

The regulars on these threads are as mad as a box of frogs
but y'all have kept me relatively sane over the last 4 years and
particularly since March when Lockdown hit my family like a truck.

One day everything will all be OK and we can meet up and laugh about it

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