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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Tunnel or Bridge

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2020 15:18

Apparently negotiations are in the black hole of the EU tunnel or should that be on the back of the fantasy of the Boris Bridge?

Another week closer to complete meltdown.

I'm guessing that our world beating customs solution will be based on blackboard and chalk.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 16:08

His gripe is that he says they're not chemists, they're biologists

Isn't Mme. the only person to win 2 Nobel prizes for different disciplines ?

ListeningQuietly · 08/10/2020 16:16

Brexit will cut red tape and get rid of unelected bureaucrats

Unless you are a person who works in other EU countries

Or a business that trades with other EU countries

Or a person who consumes products from other EU countries

The Guidance and press releases are getting more surreal by the day
www.gov.uk/transition

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 16:17

Brexit will cut red tape and get rid of unelected bureaucrats

From where I'm sitting all it's done is increase red tape and unelected peers.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/10/2020 16:26

And unelected Cummingses

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 16:28

@DGRossetti

His gripe is that he says they're not chemists, they're biologists

Isn't Mme. the only person to win 2 Nobel prizes for different disciplines ?

.... Linus Pauling - although maybe I'm cheating re his Peace Prize !
TheElementsOfMedical · 08/10/2020 16:49

His gripe is that he says they're not chemists, they're biologists.

There have been quite a lot of molecular biologists and biochemists winning the Chemistry prize over the years.

www.nobelprize.org/prizes/lists/all-nobel-prizes-in-chemistry/

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 16:52

[quote TheElementsOfMedical]His gripe is that he says they're not chemists, they're biologists.

There have been quite a lot of molecular biologists and biochemists winning the Chemistry prize over the years.

www.nobelprize.org/prizes/lists/all-nobel-prizes-in-chemistry/[/quote]
Anyway, it's all physics ...

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 16:52

Who gets hit the worst by Brexit - farmers, car manufacturers, other JIT manufacturers .... ?
Answer: those who aren't super-rich

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/06/sheep-farmers-to-be-hit-hard-if-uk-leaves-without-brexit-deal

Sheep farmers are likely to be among the worst hit if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, farmers have said,
< even with a deal >

with estimates showing that as many as 2 million lamb carcasses could go to waste
and thousands of farmers could go out of business.

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 17:12

Who gets hit the worst by Brexit - farmers, car manufacturers, other JIT manufacturers .... ?

I think we are entering a paradigm shift when it comes to cars and personal transport generally. It was coming anyway, but like the demise of the High Street and a fundamental change in working patterns, Covid has acted as a catalyst.

TL;DR I really would be starting to quietly shift any large holdings in auto manufacturers I might hold. (See also airlines and aero manufacturers ....)

OchonAgusOchonO · 08/10/2020 17:13

@BigChocFrenzy

Who gets hit the worst by Brexit - farmers, car manufacturers, other JIT manufacturers .... ? Answer: those who aren't super-rich

[[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/06/sheep-farmers-to-be-hit-hard-if-uk-leaves-without-brexit-deal]]

Sheep farmers are likely to be among the worst hit if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, farmers have said,
< even with a deal >

with estimates showing that as many as 2 million lamb carcasses could go to waste
and thousands of farmers could go out of business.

Maybe the farmer's union should have actively campaigned for a no vote.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-36078112

Farmers' interests are best served by remaining in the European Union, the National Farmers' Union has said.
It passed a resolution following an "overwhelming" vote in favour of staying in the EU, which it said was based on the "balance of existing evidence".
The union - which has 55,000 members in England and Wales - announced its position after a vote by its council.
However, the NFU said it would not be actively campaigning in the referendum.

Peregrina · 08/10/2020 17:15

My question for sheep farmers would be - how did you vote in the Referendum, but more relevant now, did you vote Tory in 2019? If yes to both or the second question then tough, you are getting exactly what you voted for.

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 17:16

Maybe the farmer's union should have actively campaigned for a no vote.

I wonder why they didn't ? As it is, a lot of farmers must have discovered that their neighbours couldn't have cared less about them now.

TheElementsOfMedical · 08/10/2020 17:18

Anyway, it's all physics ...

Channeling Rutherford, there Grin

Who gets hit the worst by Brexit

Ah, but surely that's a leading question, in which you UnBeLeavingly assume that Brexit will be bad...

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 17:24

@Peregrina

My question for sheep farmers would be - how did you vote in the Referendum, but more relevant now, did you vote Tory in 2019? If yes to both or the second question then tough, you are getting exactly what you voted for.
It's funny that Brexit was driven by some people thinking that the UK was somehow special in the world, and those people clearly thought they were special in the UK. Hence the demands from all the people who (now know they) will lose out from Brexit for handouts left, right and centre.

If they knew how seldom people in power ever thought of them, they might have made different choices.

OchonAgusOchonO · 08/10/2020 17:25

@DGRossetti

Maybe the farmer's union should have actively campaigned for a no vote.

I wonder why they didn't ? As it is, a lot of farmers must have discovered that their neighbours couldn't have cared less about them now.

I suspect because a lot of their members were in favour of brexit.
ListeningQuietly · 08/10/2020 17:28

Very interesting conversations at work today about how the COVID induced changes to working patterns may reverse the flight to the cities of the young
and thus affect the voting patterns in rural and northern areas
( that Red / Blue wall has no solid foundations after all)

Too late to reverse the 2016 vote
but not too late to make sure that the next GE will be very up in the air

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 17:30

I suspect because a lot of their members were in favour of brexit.

Well, they are getting what they voted for, aren't they.

It's not just BeLeavers that can squirrel things up. Any hint of grumbling from the estates that backed Brexit can be swiftly immediately and conclusively shut down by reminding them - as forcefully as they need - that they voted for whatever they are getting.

Eventually someone won't get the memo and let slip "but not this ..." and pull the whole house of shit down into a puddle.

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 17:32

@ListeningQuietly

Very interesting conversations at work today about how the COVID induced changes to working patterns may reverse the flight to the cities of the young and thus affect the voting patterns in rural and northern areas ( that Red / Blue wall has no solid foundations after all)

Too late to reverse the 2016 vote
but not too late to make sure that the next GE will be very up in the air

One thing that has struck me these past few months, is how few (maybe 1 in 10) employers had the faintest idea how efficient their companies were. Despite all the bollocks they spout to their shareholders.

Which is now biting them on the arse, as they have no way of knowing if the new normal is less - or more - efficient.

Peregrina · 08/10/2020 17:35

They voted for the Oven Ready Deal - well more fool them trusting a liar like Johnson, if the Oven Ready Deal turns out to be No Deal.

Jason118 · 08/10/2020 17:59

It's just that they don't know how to turn the oven on.

TheMShip · 08/10/2020 18:01

Oslo

Meuniere · 08/10/2020 18:45

When things get tough, you need to find innovative solutions....

www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2017/07/06/_bruges_fishermencancontinuefishinginbritishwatersafterbrexittha-1-3018117/

Some politicians in Belgium are bringing back some agreement from 1666 hoping to still be able to fish in BRITISH waters..... Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 18:45

@Jason118

It's just that they don't know how to turn the oven on.
.... 🤣🤣
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 18:55

(FT paywall) The smashing of the British state

https://www.ft.com/content/75ed2705-7bd0-4da2-98b9-73b40041654c

In an inversion of the tradition that it is ministers who are accountable for mistakes, at least half a dozen senior civil servants have been forced out of their jobs
following a year of coronavirus blunders and other policy errors by the government.

Not a single minister has been sacked.

The battle lines have been drawn.
....
Six of the most senior officials running ministries have quit or been pushed out this year

  • the heads of the home, foreign, justice and education ministries, as well as the head of the government’s legal service and the service’s chief executive.

Some, like Jonathan Slater at education, found themselves taking the rap for their minister’s failings;

others, like Simon McDonald at the Foreign Office, found their jobs had disappeared.
Allies of the prime minister made it known they were “Remainers”.

Some see this upheaval as a politicisation of the state, an effort to install Brexiters and those thought to be more pro-Conservative.

Simon Fraser, who was a civil servant for 36 years and permanent secretary at the Foreign Office until 2015,
says the changes are more about loyalty than bringing in new experts.
“It’s not that top civil service appointments are becoming political in a party sense as in America,
but some of them have been politicised by ministers choosing people who are seen as loyalists while pushing others out.”

It is a shift that Fraser warns will damage the institution.
“Of course civil servants must loyally implement government policy,
but if this becomes a trend it will weaken the objectivity of the civil service,
which is still one of the great institutions we have, and mean ministers get less forthright advice.”
....
Dave Penman, head of the FDA, the union that represents senior civil servants ...
says he has “never heard them talk about a government like this”.

He suggests officials are filled with fear about who is going to be sacked next and whether they are being monitored for their loyalty.

"There is an awful lot of chaos and short-termism. It’s about who they trust and who is on side — it’s a very Trumpian approach.”
....
Johnson, Cummings and Gove are three men in a hurry:

the next election may not be for another three or four years, but their revolution will have much deeper consequences.

With their picks leading Whitehall departments, new officials recruited in their image and Conservative allies running public bodies,
the British state will be smashed and rebuilt in the coming years.

< or just smashed and the rubble left lying in the streets >

DGRossetti · 08/10/2020 19:03

The problem with recruiting Johnson and Cummings wannabees is that they will want the top jobs for themselves ...

At least Monarchy holds a persons birth against them to help ensure there's no challenges at the top.

Otherwise we're just seeing the groundwork for a gangland war being laid. And we already know Boris is quite happy to hire a hitman.

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