Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

[RedToothBrush]

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

The 70's is not history. It's only yesterday.

My (N) Irish flatmate at Uni remembered his Catholic aunt inviting the British soldiers in for tea when they were first deployed .. he was 2 years older than me.

A history teacher at school once said that "if you can remember it, it's not history". Which sounds snappy, but disregards the fact that it's "history" of 400 years ago that is driving what's happening now. And that itself was driven by the "history" 100 years before that.

No, I'm sorry, but I can't accept that. The 70's is not history. It's only yesterday.
When I was at school, the History syllabus ran up to the end of WW2
a generation before I was born
For kids at school now, the 1970s were
a generation before they were born

could the IRA have been so effective if there had not been flows of money from America?

Just from a logical point of view, it made sense for the US not to stop it's citizens funding the IRA, because if they didn't, it's a given the USSR would have.

Alondra thank you for providing that translation - as DrBlackbird posts, it was measured and intelligent and I personally found it a joy to read. Despite the context, of course.

I don't doubt the IRA could mobilise support from the USA again. However, I'm not sure there would be the same stomach for an armed struggle again so the support is more likely to come in different ways.

A hard border in Ireland will result in a concerted effort by Sinn Féin for a border poll. This is much more likely to succeed if there is no violence by the IRA. Violence resulting from a hard border would more likely come from splinter groups such as RIRA or CIRA. These groups do not have the same influence or connections internationally as the PIRA, or the officials for that matter.

I would expect the provos would engage in more sophisticated disruption in the UK that would be more effective. They know they cannot win an armed struggle. They're not likely to start one if it would reduce the likelihood of a border poll.

I would expect the provos would engage in more sophisticated disruption in the UK that would be more effective. They know they cannot win an armed struggle.

But that's only half ... what if the Uk forgets the 70s and 80s and ministers insist on only hearing that we can win ?

When I was at school, I was taught by some people who had fought in WW2

"Grenfell files ‘lost forever’ after laptop wiped, inquiry hears"

Anyone else old who immediately thinks of the gaps on the Nixon tapes ?

@BigChocFrenzy

When I was at school, I was taught by some people who had fought in WW2

1978 - first year at high school was my English teachers last. He'd been called up and was part of the British army that liberated Paris. He once commented how grateful the local girls were ...

He once looked around the class - my surname, there was a Chinese girl, a couple of kids with Indian/Pakistani heritage, plus a Welsh lass (the name Sian gave it away ) and made a really warm comment about how travel and learning about other cultures was once the preserve of the rich. Being 12 I wasn't really listening properly ... I don't think he'd have had much truck with UKIP though.

And of course my primary, middle, high school and 6th forms all had plaques with the names of pupils who died in the wars . As does every village in Britain. With the most poignant and saddest being cluster of surnames that will have been brothers or fathers and sons.

@BigChocFrenzy

"Grenfell files ‘lost forever’ after laptop wiped, inquiry hears"

Anyone else old who immediately thinks of the gaps on the Nixon tapes ?

Will he do the Rose Mary Stretch ?

DGR Sorry poor syntax, I was referring the roubles engaged in undermining the British government in it’s own interests rather than the IRAs.

I think you mean taught by someone who fought in WW1 BigChoc. Some of mine were old enough to have done so. The middle aged men who taught me would mostly have served in WW2.

Grenfell- how very convenient to have lost the tapes.

I have some sympathy with the Grenfell Laptop - it was wiped before the fire, according to that article. So it's perhaps poor data management by the firm rather than malicious cover up by an individual. Foolish but if there had been no fire there would be no reason to even ask him for old emails.

@DGRossetti

I would expect the provos would engage in more sophisticated disruption in the UK that would be more effective. They know they cannot win an armed struggle.

But that's only half ... what if the Uk forgets the 70s and 80s and ministers insist on only hearing that we can win ?

All the more likely to result in a successful border poll. And presumably Scottish independence too.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

I have some sympathy with the Grenfell Laptop - it was wiped before the fire, according to that article. So it's perhaps poor data management by the firm rather than malicious cover up by an individual. Foolish but if there had been no fire there would be no reason to even ask him for old emails.

Do you know something ?

I really don't give a shit.

If any party in this investigation wants to try and wheedle their way out of anything by claiming the data on the laptop would exculpate them, then they should be plum out of luck.

After all, if your financial institution can't disprove your claim against it, they lose (which is why you know they do record every call).

I have old source code going back to 2000 stashed in the cloud. Plus the backed up Windows Server disk from my last office based job in 2010. And having those saved my last employer £250,000 (but that's another story).

My O level history syllabus covered 1919 to 1980 (last topic was the boycott of the Moscow Olympics). And that was in 1982.

Lord Keen has proffered his resignation over the Internal Bill but it had not been accepted yet by Downing Street as they are trying to persuade him to stay.

All the more likely to result in a successful border poll. And presumably Scottish independence too.

Counting chickens etc, but I'm kinda pencilling Scottish independence in as a given. Although if they start prattling on about "it's our pound too" I reserve the right to give up in despair. It's not just Brexiteers that are terminally dim.

Blabbering idiot Boris is bring questioned by the parliamentary committee on BBC 1 news channel live.

Actually, must have been 1916 onwards as we covered the Easter Uprising and the Russian Revolution.

@Sostenueto

Lord Keen has proffered his resignation over the Internal Bill but it had not been accepted yet by Downing Street as they are trying to persuade him to stay.

Apparently he was trying to give them an out (he is a Tory after all) and they basically said "Ignore Lord Keen, he doesn't really know what he's talking about".

If Westminster insist on carrying on scything through previously signed treaties, how would the Act of Union stand from the Scottish parliaments side ? Not sure if adding a Republican vibe to the mix would help or hinder such things ? Maybe Westminster could redeploy the gunboat it's going to sent to Barbados* to then moor off Glasgow ?

*In monarchists wet dreams.

The 70s isn't History

Oh dear, tell that to all the historians beavering away on researching books and articles on everything from yesterdays developments on brexit, Trump, rule of law and the Independence movement in Hong Kong, the hardening Xi's regime in China etc. etc. backwards. Surely History is the study of any issue, event or trend that benefits from being able to study it with hindsight and objectivity / a certain subjectivity and access to many sources, some not available at the time. My understanding of the 70s is certainly different to my understanding as I lived it. It would actually be a massive failure of intellectual curiosity if fifty years of emerging sources and evidence hadn't added to my understanding. Obviously some people do suffer from that lack of intellectual curiosity and in place of evidence based understanding they develop rose tinted specs which is partly what has got us in this mess. I would argue that the 70's are not just history but we really need that history to be studied so we learn the lessons. Given the crisis we are in we need that history to be studied for 2016 too....

Obviously there are crossovers with politics, economics, sociology and indeed literature and art etc. but academic study is increasingly recognising that disciplinary boundaries can be as limiting as they are useful humanity being what it is....

The 70s isn't History [] Oh dear, tell that to all the historians beavering away on researching books and articles on everything from yesterdays developments on brexit

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/05/police-uncovering-epidemic-of-child-abuse-in-1970s-and-80s

...

Among those convicted were care home boss John Allen, 78, jailed for 14 years for attacking five child victims between 1976 and 1984, Timothy Mawer, 51, a badminton coach jailed for abusing seven victims in the 1980s and 90s, and John Clifford Davies, 61, a children’s home worker jailed for 24 years for a string offences in the 1970s and 80s.

...

An aside on the history debate. Years ago, a former boyfriend (English) and I (Scottish) were comparing the history syllabi north and south of the border. When I told him I was taught Scottish history, he retorted "there's no such thing as Scottish history!" . This otherwise intelligent man knew nothing about our kings and queens or anything else.

When I was at school, I was taught by some people who had fought in WW2

When I was at school I was taught by women who would have been in their twenties and thirties during World War 2. Quite a few still wore the same fashions (in a blue stocking way) and hair. None were married, some were very unhappy and bitter, often there was a story of a lost fiancee if they ever let you get close enough to be personal. In spite of that they had been at the forefront of the women's movement by studying at Oxbridge and encouraged us to have no limits on our own ambitions beyond confining them to the academic world and medicine. . "The first century of the school has coincided with the movement to establish first the rights of women to be educated as men, and then their right to equal opportunities to use their education in work. Women from this school have always been at the forefront of this struggle. We have no need to apologise for the values and educational standards we maintain. Sometimes we must lean against the wind."

That's history too.....