Westministenders: Don't forget to stockpile. Again.

[RedToothBrush]

The government is telling pharmacists and drug manufactures to stockpile drugs ahead of the end of transition on 31st December.

In the middle of a pandemic.

What could go wrong?

I think it's difficult to learn a language well though

DFs English was better than a teacher we had at school who came from Italy. (Who taught French and Italian when I was there, and then retrained and taught maths and IT when my brothers went through).

Just to add that these days, with Google Translate doing the heavy lifting, there's no excuse.

It's hard not to draw the conclusion that the English are somehow genetically wired to avoid the concept of other languages, unless there's an opportunity to be hilariously racist about them.

Hmm not sure DGR. I can read, write and speak fluently, but there are some people in our village who speak in a thick regional accent, mange les mots, and include patois. We once had a young French man who came to inspect our septic tank and he said, "no I can't understand them either"... Now we have to add a mask into the equation. 😀


This is interesting. So DH can keep his because he’s an EU citizen? I wonder whether DD will still be able to use hers, considering that she has dual nationality and has a Dutch passport?

So I believe (but am prepared to be put right!) that it hinges on whether you have exercised rights that are preserved by the withdrawal agreement. If your DH has exercised his right to FOM he has rights under the WA. If your DD is a dual national she probably doesn't qualify.

I'm wondering about my kids - born British, acquired FR nationality at 13 under a non-naturalisation procedure. Their birth certificates have been changed to show them being born as FR nationals. Do they have any rights conferred by the WA, or not?

I get that some people think they can live in a country without learning the language and on the Costas you can, but I don't know how you do it in rural France unless you live in an area with lots of migrant Brits.

I think the reality is that Britons in France cluster heavily in particular (mainly rural) areas, where they are often a significant part of the local population.

I imagine that Brits in places with no British community have chosen to be there because they intend to integrate.

Having English-speaking friends, English-speaking TV etc are all significant hurdles to learning the language.

Having English-speaking friends, English-speaking TV etc are all significant hurdles to learning the language.

And ?

Being able to walk is a significant hurdle to understanding life in a wheelchair. Does that make it OK to just not bother ?

@HilaryThorpe

Hmm not sure DGR. I can read, write and speak fluently, but there are some people in our village who speak in a thick regional accent, mange les mots, and include patois. We once had a young French man who came to inspect our septic tank and he said, "no I can't understand them either"... Now we have to add a mask into the equation. 😀

I did say heavy, not "all" .

DFs best friend has quite a large family with an Irish dimension. One guy was completely and utterly unintelligible. No idea where exactly he came from, but it seemed no one could understand him. Lovely chap. Just had a really thick Irish accent (not Northern as I can remember in my ears). He'd pop over once in a while (I think his sister was married into the family).

DF picked up a lot of dialects when he toured Italy with his national service, He said if you are going to waste 2 years of your life, you may as well complain about it to as many people as possible.

My paternal side is stolidly Anglo saxon.

My maternal family got chucked out of Scotland (!) and ended up in Ireland in the 16th century.

God only knows what my ancestors got up to...I've always thought of the Scots as being a very forgiving people!

My Irish family have very thick accents but I can understand them fine (used to it I guess)

@Mistigri

 This is interesting. So DH can keep his because he’s an EU citizen? I wonder whether DD will still be able to use hers, considering that she has dual nationality and has a Dutch passport?

So I believe (but am prepared to be put right!) that it hinges on whether you have exercised rights that are preserved by the withdrawal agreement. If your DH has exercised his right to FOM he has rights under the WA. If your DD is a dual national she probably doesn't qualify.

I'm wondering about my kids - born British, acquired FR nationality at 13 under a non-naturalisation procedure. Their birth certificates have been changed to show them being born as FR nationals. Do they have any rights conferred by the WA, or not?

No they don’t. They are BRITISH and will be treated as any BRITISH person in the uk (Just like they will be treated as a French person in France)

@Peregrina

I think it's difficult to learn a language well though - but having said that plenty of other nations manage. One of the frustrating things I have found is that you try out your French, Spanish or German and get a reply back in English. But still, if you say you are trying to learn the language, most people are happy to support you.

English is also used as a 'lingua franca' which doesn't help us.

On the other side, most people arriving in the U.K. manage to so how learn English pretty quickly....

Do they? Is that the noble immigrant narrative again? I'd imagine it varies as much as English expats abroad. As Mistigri says, if you find yourself as part of a community that all speak your language, your motivation to learn the language is reduced.

" I can remember it in my ears"
I love this DGR, and know exactly what you mean!

Anecdotally I thought English in France were more likely to speak the local language than English in Spain.
If you marry a local and don't work yourself its easier to socialise with your own community and let your husband (or wife - but its normally the woman who moves ime) do the communication.

Spain does seem to have something of a British colony there, as they have the largest number Brit residents, quite enclosed and providing all they want

I don't think there are such numbers in other countries
Also, Brits living in other countries are more likely to be working, which tends to increase / require some knowledge of the language

I know many Brits work in Spain, but they do have the largest number of Brit pensioners in Europe, who only moved there after retirement

An older generation is more likely to have learnt French in school than Spanish. By older I mean 60 + and hence may be just a tad more willing to try to speak it.* They are also probably more spread out in where they live in France - to my knowledge there aren't the same English enclaves in France like the Costas in Spain.

*Maybe not. As one of that generation, language learning was solid wodges of grammar and after 5 years learning French and getting an O level, you could still be hard pressed to ask for a cup of coffee or book a hotel room. I recall that the speaking test for O level lasted all of 10 minutes.

yoikes my IL family are also "Scots exiled to Ireland for being naughty". DH says apparently they were a bit too fond of the rape and pillage, but I think that's a joke to wind up his Dad, who is very straightlaced. Must research the truth.

Peregrina
There are British enclaves in France, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree than on the Costa. I was on the border between Charente and Dordogne last week and the presence of UK homeowners (permanent residences as well as holiday homes) was very noticeable, which it isn't around where I live.

I always try to practice my French. Was annoyingly always top of the middle set at school (much to mum's chagrin) and after a couple of years in senior school there was no catching up with the top set, who's entire lesson was in French taught by a native. By GCSE they were doing essays on French Literature while we carried on with the main phrases "J'adore la natation!" or "Je suis une fille unique!" etc. I still remember it all but it was rather limiting. I understand a lot more than I can comfortably speak in French; I know a lot of vocab but only very basic phrases eg I am/I like/You are/We are/Is it that?. I did a Spanish GCSE alongside my A'Levels too but it seemed a lot simpler (and not much of it stuck if I am honest). I was always told if I spoke Spanish in Spain they would assume I was French because of my accent. I said I'd rather they thought I was French and at least I could reply easier

In other news...I had what I now perceive to be a date today. It was under the guise of a dog walk (we met 10 years ago - both now have young dogs), included dd and resulted in him insisting on buying us both lunch and dinner. I'm about as shocked as I can be as he seems to want to do it again! Very easy to talk to and thankfully a remainer who's parents have a house in France. Who'd have thunk it!

A date? How lovely for you, JSP !

Immersion in the country where they speak a different language is by far the best way to pick it up quickly. If you have the advantage of living there permanently and don't bother, hell mend you.

I have experience of colleagues (with English as a second or third language) whose spoken English deteriorated after marrying someone from their home country. Admittedly I can see why it happens, but it's so limiting in so many ways (as already outlined by other posters).

jesuis
Eeeek! Tell us more! -I'm living vicariously--
😁
honeysuckle
Apparently my clan is well known for being a bit fighty 🤔😁

Yoikes - speaking as someone who hasn't been on a date for 5 years, I hear you! Think maybe he was wise to suggest a dog walk with child as it didn't seem nerve-wracking at all, more of a doggy play date. He's over 6ft (which is great as I am 5ft8) has his own flat, dog and a job at the EA. So far so good! He will probably tell me he likes to read The Daily Mail or something tomorrow though knowing my luck . It's all a bit confusing tbh and I only realised an hour in that I forgot to shave my legs . It really has been a long time since I made much of an effort! Mr Tumnus legs don't seem to have deterred him so far so fingers crossed for the record I thankfully have blonde leg hairs, not ginger ones like Tumnus

I never really understood the British love for the Dordogne, much prefer Provence.

I was always told if I spoke Spanish in Spain they would assume I was French because of my accent. I said I'd rather they thought I was French and at least I could reply easier

I’ve been told in Italy that I speak Italian with a Spanish accent - which is bizarre as I don’t speak a word of Spanish! My only explanation is my mouth goes instinctively into a French shape and that strangulates my Italian pronunciation.

Italian is very wide-mouthed. Sono andaaaaato in Inghilteeeeeerrrrra.

I'm generally rubbish at rolling r's. I always feel as though I'm a 3yo pretending to be a propeller and get weirdly embarrassed

I did O level French at about the same time as Peregrina, I think, and though I could read and write it well (yes, lots of grammar and literature), I could barely speak a word. It took a number of years wintering in Morocco to make my spoken French intelligible, and it still has a faint Arabic twang.
Last year, appalled at the fact that I had forgotten the language, I spent four days in La Rochelle on my own, and told the people in the hotel not to speak to me in English. I did a lot of shopping! And consequently a lot of chatting to shop assistants. By the end of the second full day my French had improved amazingly. It wasn’t really that I “remembered” how to say things...they just came back to me. It was a very interesting experience.