Westminstenders: Operation Shock and Awe

[RedToothBrush]

The government is launching its get ready for the end of transition campaign which has been dubbed a 'shock and awe' campaign.

In this campaign we will learn all about what Brexit means and what amazing opportunities lie for having increased customs and borders, beaucracy and increased costs. Bet you are all really excited and looking forward to this.

We will also get a 'Farage Garage' in Kent to cope with these wonderful opportunities in traffic jams. This will be something that businesses throughout the country will be super excited to plan for in their socially distanced Zoom meetings or across warehouses with their face masks on. And banks will be delighted to see an uptick in applications in CCJs and debt reconstruction plans.

It will be a super fun time for the under 30s who have zero hours contracts, worked in retail or hospitality. Or should I say 'worked'.

Meanwhile the right to a jury trial has been binned due to 'long covid delays' which are shorter than they were several years ago. The NHS isn't getting the funding it expected, and waiting lists are longer than ever with no way to clear them. The plan to build more hospitals seems to have disappeared with the Nightingales. Many councils are about to go into insolvency and be taken over by accountancy firms. The civil service is being dismantled and conservative loyalists with no experience being put in charge of important functions of state. Communications with the press are being 'streamlined' to make them incredible of holding power to account and only able to repeat government public announcements.

Anyone looking forward to Christmas? When you write a letter to Santa remember to add 'visa application form', 'a sleeping bag for use at Dover', 'tinned tomatoes' and 'packets of seeds to grow your own' to the list.

DGR I agree to a point, as I posted back in Feb (?) with the research isn't black and white; there are risks to overusing masks, not wearing them/using them properly and not cleaning non-disposable ones. This is why I, even then, said they should be treated with caution. However if you as a gvt make something mandatory, the least you could do is explain it so that it doesn't give a detrimental effect rather than a net positive. I feel atm that toothpaste advertisements have more science in than the gvt messaging and something like the Febreeze/air freshener advertisements would go a long way to explaining droplets in the air (you are right, eyes are still an entry point but from a resistance to having droplets in the air pov from people wearing masks in close proximity) it would be nice to have a general message followed with "there are several different types of mask, disposable and reusable. If you are using disposable simply use the strings to put on and remove, without touching the centre mask if possible, and put them in the bin after use. If you are using a reusable mask, these need to be washed after each use, again using the strings to put on and remove. Washing should be at 60+. Masks should not be worn for more than 2 hours." Job done. Simple pictorial messaging alongside for any language barriers and I reckon after a while people would get the point.

I noted yesterday Trump apparently now touts wearing as mask as "Patriotic" - looks like the behavioural science that it is his supporters that will croak due to mask stubbornness is getting though at last

LQ I hope you didn't grow those from a Mr Fothergill's pack

This appeared on 14th July...
www.eadt.co.uk/news/mr-fothergills-courgette-seeds-recalled-1-6744726

The business of handling the mask by strings etc is all about protecting yourself from infection by particles caught by the mask - which is correct for ppe.

The purpose of the home made/please wear a mask initiative is to reduce the quantity of infected droplets that come from you into the local atmosphere - so the careful handling only stops you coming into contact with your own breath - ie not necessary.

Grenzen
Nope. Mine are lush and I have dozens more coming !!

@FrankieStein402

The business of handling the mask by strings etc is all about protecting yourself from infection by particles caught by the mask - which is correct for ppe.

The purpose of the home made/please wear a mask initiative is to reduce the quantity of infected droplets that come from you into the local atmosphere - so the careful handling only stops you coming into contact with your own breath - ie not necessary.

This.

But even back in February, when there was even less certainty about the benefits, the answer to the negative should have been to teach people to use them properly. I’m still not quite sure why the answer to people not knowing how to put on and take off a mask isn’t just to have a PH campaign to teach them. If we can manage a campaign to show you how to wash your hands you would have thought we could manage one to teach you how to use a mask.

Mind you I say that in the full knowledge that round here we still haven’t grasped the concept of socially distance queuing even when there are big pieces of tape or circles telling you where to stand.

It is possible there’s just no hope.

Julian Lewis is a Brexit swivel eyed loon
BUT
well done him on calling out Cummings
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/22/julian-lewis-warns-dominic-cummings-not-to-politicise-isc-inquiries
if only more MPs had backbones

@FrankieStein402

The business of handling the mask by strings etc is all about protecting yourself from infection by particles caught by the mask - which is correct for ppe.

The purpose of the home made/please wear a mask initiative is to reduce the quantity of infected droplets that come from you into the local atmosphere - so the careful handling only stops you coming into contact with your own breath - ie not necessary.

I’m sorry but I strongly disagree with you there.

Regardless of the mask the mask will come into contact with droplets from other people. It doesn’t matter what sort of material it has been made. So you need to be just as careful taking it off. AND wash your hands afterwards.

The difference between a medical mask and a homemade one is that the level of protection is different. Whether it’s about protecting yourself from other people’s particulates or protecting other people from your particulates. Contact with the virus will be the same in both cases.

JeSuis medical masks can be worn for 4 hours. The guidance for homemade ones is that you can wear them for the whole day UNLESS they get damp. (Which is true too with medical masks too).

I agree there is a need for some clear advice on how to use masks. As well as washing.
There should also be some guidance about what sort of material is used for homemade masks (the WHO has some info on that - they should have 3 layers for example).

I’d be interested about issue around overusing masks. HCP have been using for the whole day for years and years and I haven’t heard about issues on overuse.

Julian Lewis is a Brexit swivel eyed loon

But he really hates/mistrusts Russia.

Swedish
Yup, as somebody who has studied international relations and defence for decades
with the caveat that his hatred of Germany colours his view of the EU
he really knows his stuff on Putin.
I hope that he briefs and spins on it every week for the rest of the year and onwards till the next election.
The Oligarch money is a septic sore in London that should have been lanced decades ago.

More proof that Corbyn is a Tory mole
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/22/antisemitism-labour-settlement-plunges-party-into-civil-war
he really does want to tear the Labour Party apart doesn't he

Everything still Corbyns fault?

Ghost
That most definitely is.
Starmer won as leader and tried to pull the party back together and rebuild its support base.
Corbyn has put that all at risk again.
He's a selfish muppet who should retire and go water his allotment.

Labour infighting is a gift to the Tory party
as it distracts from their vicious incompetence.

We keep being told that those who do badly made bad decisions - it's your first decision that really matters:
Choosing which family to be born into

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2020/jul/22/one-in-10-born-in-80s-to-inherit-more-than-half-average-lifetime-earnings

As many as one in 10 of UK adults born in the 1980s will inherit more than half as much money from their parents as the average person earns in a lifetime,
according to a new report by one of the nation’s leading economics thinktanks.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said wealth passed down from one generation to the next was fast-becoming the most important determinant of how well-off people will become

< colour me surprised >

Agree LQ it’s just distracting from the shambles that is this government. Starmer was getting some cut through with voters & maybe people were thinking there might be an alternative. This just feeds into the ‘yes but Corbyn would be worse’ excuses.

I'm not sure how you think Starmer has pulled the party together when membership swelled under Corbyn. Members who are becoming disillusioned by the party's move back to bland centrism. Broad church it ain't.

Because membership is not as important as votes.

Check the opinion polls (voting intention).

Proves my point

The point about touching the strings is so you don't get moisture from your mask on your fingertips and then touch door handles/buttons etc and contaminate anything you touch.

Yes to uncertainty about length of time - IMO none of the research fully covers this - other than medical grade which I haven't mentioned specifically so people don't buy up stock best saved for NHS. 2 hrs should be long enough for a trip to the shops, for example.

I also agree that they should be specifying details about filters etc, but my brief "campaign" example was a bare minimum and aimed and the main points as a basic level health campaign. We all know how the public prefer 3 word slogans - but PH needs to be just slightly more detailed

I also agree the confusion about when to wear/lack of consistency in message is ridiculous and I suspect it's partly why no one can be bothered with a PH campaign - bit of a joke at this point.

Please stop complicating mask wearing - these are nowhere near ppe efficacy - sole role is to reduce/slow down exhalation of virus, reducing its range of travel.

If you're concerned about the mask having picked up particles from other people then you should be just as concerned about your sleeves - which are more likely to be in the ballistic path of exhaled droplets.

Complicating is bad because it makes people less likely to bother - yes wash hands when you take it off - but you do that when you get home anyway don't you?

Labour infighting is a gift to the Tory party as it distracts from their vicious incompetence.

My feeling exactly. I didn't have a lot of time for Blair, but he made sure that they had tight discipline to get themselves elected.

The Times:
Six Conservative cabinet ministers and eight junior ministers received tens of thousands of pounds from individuals or businesses with links to Russia according to Electoral Commission records

The Financial Times
top civil servant had warned the government against investing $500m (£392m) in a bankrupt satellite operator - but Downing Street pushed ahead still.