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Brexit

Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2020 19:38

This week Mark Sedwill has resigned (or was he pushed?) and David Frost (chief brexit lead) was appointed National Security Adviser in a move that enraged Theresa May. The former prime minister felt that his appointment was unprofessional and that was a political appointment not an independent one and that he lacked experience. Of course in terms of national security we still haven't had that report on Russia and I don't believe The Intelligence and Security Committee has yet been named (not sat since Johnson was appointed as PM).

We have passed the deadline for extending transition and we have now apparently said that negotiations on the end of transition will finish at the end of September.

The bill ending Free movement of people has been signed, amongst much fanfare by the Conservatives saying they have delivered on the Referendum promise. However we might have up to 3million Hong Kongers who we are willing to allow into the country which might not go down too well with those who were unhappy with 'unrestricted EU immigration'.

We also have the demonstration of utter incompetence, outsourcing and lack of coordination and communication from central government and local government in the covid-19 crisis. A national scandal that isn't being properly reported by the press and leave you with the very large question of who is this government serving? If its contract with Deloittes over testing didn't require them to report positive tests to Public Health England, what was the point in the testing? How can this be consistent with 'The Government’s new approach to biosecurity will bring together the UK’s world-leading epidemiological expertise and fuse it with the best analytical capability from across Government in an integrated approach.' and will provide real time analysis and assessment of infection outbreaks at a community level, to enable rapid intervention before outbreaks grow.?

The growing feeling that Brexit is being exploited by this government for personal interests and those of big business at the expense of the general public is one which was feared and grows harder to argue against by the day.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 11/07/2020 10:33

The approach does seem to reek of English UK exceptionalism, with overtones of US selfishness (we'll get as much as we can and hell mend the little people rest Hmm) SadAngry

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 11:40

Yoikes I have inherited a big Arab hooter from my mum Wink

It can be very awkward doing some abs exercises in the gym

  • I'm the only one whose snout gets in the way, not my A cups ! -
but it has proved very handy for masks 😂
BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 11:43

I don't know whether Oxford will indeed produce the world's first effective vaccine

  • they are a top notch group -
but it seems daft not to join in any other feasible schemes too, instead of putting all our British eggs in the Oxford basket
Emilyontmoor · 11/07/2020 12:05

I wear glasses and yes they steam up when I wear a mask but I just live with it. When it is really humid outside and they completely fog I pull my glasses down my nose which means I can’t read anything (varifocals). It has just not occurred to me not to wear a mask in shops and crowded spaces since the beginning of March when it became clear to me that the virus was widespread . My parents had caught Covid though nobody but me was prepared to conclude it was Covid in spite of them having 4 of the 5 symptoms because “there are only 4 cases in the whole county”. Hmm

When I first wore a mask in Hong Kong during SARS I tripped up, bit the pavement, split my lip and chipped my tooth, and Hong Kong pavements were then still sticky with spit. Even so I persevered and got used to it because to not wear a mask meant risking having a granny come up to you and reach up to tie one on. Countries where that sort of culture pervades have done better throughout this pandemic so it has always made sense to me. It must be one of the reasons that Japan has not had higher death rates (there mask wearing by anyone with any infectious disease has been the norm since the Spanish Flu epidemic even when there isn’t a pandemic, it predated SARS ) in spite of limited lockdown.

As one friend said, it’s a no brainer, it’s the kind and caring thing to do, not spreading your germs and viruses to others, and it is such a simple and easy thing to do if you do not have a psychological aversion. Unfortunately around here apart from public transport mask wearing is still below 50% in shops. And I witnessed some sort of PTA get together on our open space from the school that neighbours it. Around 30 adults (mostly middle class, it is a school you have to pew sit to get in) chatting loudly and animatedly, no social distancing or masks. That sight horrified me especially as I know teachers who worry daily about being put at risk by children. But maybe it is me? We are in isolation at the moment, One week in, three to go, one of the first to risk elective surgery locally and it just feels like such a slap in the face when people are taking such risks with the virus still about.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 12:07

Poll on UK COVID policy

MORI found 5 main groups wrt lockdown / COVID policy

Despite the vocal opposition on MN,
only 4% consistently opposed lockdown and think it too much

A large majority think lockdown should have happened earlier

Most of the population seem more cautious than the govt
In particular, 2019 Labour voters, 2016 Remain voters & those aged 35-54 most likely to have favoured an earlier, longer lockdown,
but so do significant numbers in other groups

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/perceptions-lockdown-timings-too-fast-too-slow-or-about-right

Ipsos MORI interviewed a representative sample of 1,078 British adults aged 18-75.
Interviews were conducted online from 26-29 June 2020.
Data are weighted to match the profile of the population.

Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?
Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?
Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?
Peregrina · 11/07/2020 12:10

I fully agree, BigChoc co-operation and sharing knowledge would be so much better. But this is all about "We don't need the EU." Now its
because "They won't let us have a say." Er yes, Brexiters, that is what you wanted.

How long will it be before we have to abandon the effort, or are beaten to it? Reading the long post about qualifications not having mutual recognition - what will happen to EU researchers already here who qualified in the EU? Will they suddenly been deemed to be no longer qualified and pulled off the work, or will a special dispensation be given? Who knows! What a mess! But of course, Corbyn would have been worse!!!

yoikes · 11/07/2020 13:04

I might try a fabric one...

DGRossetti · 11/07/2020 13:11

DW just shouted across that (assuming it's a typo) it seems Dominic Cummin[g]s is the UKs new drug tzar ?

I remains slightly sceptical, but I have to admit what tipped me to believe it is the fact that "Dominic Cummins" clearly hasn't a fucking clue.

www.healtheuropa.eu/a-national-disgrace-call-to-improve-medical-cannabis-access-in-the-uk/101357/

Dominic Cummins has responded to Ms Deacon’s letter saying that there is ‘strong scientific evidence that cannabis can harm people’s mental and physical health, and damage communities.’

His letter states: ‘It is crucial that this country keeps in step with the latest scientific evidence, so that patients and their families have access to the most appropriate course of medical treatment.

‘The government understands the concerns and anguish of patients and their families who suffer on a daily basis. It welcomes the rapid process that has been made and looks forward to further rapid progress in this area so patients receive the best, most appropriate treatment and medication, supported by robust evidence.

‘The decision whether to prescribe an individual with medicinal cannabis is therefore not a political or financial decision, but a decision by a medical expert, who will have considered whether it is the most effective treatment based on an individual’s particular condition.’

Regarding Cummin’s reply, Deacon said: “It was incredibly insulting. He was talking about the recreational use of cannabis, which is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a plant-based medicinal oil that stops children having seizures. It shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding of what the families are going through”.

Clavinova · 11/07/2020 13:15

I don't know whether Oxford will indeed produce the world's first effective vaccine - they are a top notch group - but it seems daft not to join in any other feasible schemes too, instead of putting all our British eggs in the Oxford basket.

Two baskets;
6th July - "GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi are close to agreeing a £500m deal to supply the UK government with 60 million doses of their potential coronavirus vaccine, according to a press report."

"Even though the vaccine is not yet even in clinical trials, the UK government is aiming to snap up rights to a supply in the deal expected to be concluded in the coming days."

"According to The Sunday Times, the government wants to take an option to buy the vaccine should it work in human trials due to start in September."

"The UK government has already signed a deal with AstraZeneca to supply 100 million doses of a vaccine being developed in partnership with the University of Oxford."

www.fiercepharma.com/vaccines/sanofi-glaxosmithkline-near-625m-covid-19-vaccine-supply-deal-u-k-government-report

Clavinova · 11/07/2020 13:19

"The decision whether to prescribe an individual with medicinal cannabis is therefore not a political or financial decision, but a decision by a medical expert, who will have considered whether it is the most effective treatment based on an individual’s particular condition."

Sorry but I agree with him.

ListeningQuietly · 11/07/2020 13:23

yoikes
Masks - My mum made us each one out of cool fabric - small ones for DD and myself, bigger ones for the gentlemen in the family.
Its in my pocket whenever I go out so that if I find myself in a situation where I cannot social distance or where masks are required I can pop it on.

Peregrina · 11/07/2020 13:50

6th July - "GlaxoSmithKline and Sanofi are close to agreeing a £500m
I.e. a deal has not been agreed yet, this is just a report in the Press. When the ink has dried on the deal, then we will know for certain.

"Even though the vaccine is not yet even in clinical trials,
Again - no where near ready to be used.

Just how many times have we heard from this Government that something World Beating is about to be made available, to be told that it doesn't work and has been abandoned. After public money has been wasted.

This is not to disparage the Oxford Vaccine people. But Johnson and Cummings given a 1/4 of an opportunity to balls something up, will take the opportunity with both hands.

Emilyontmoor · 11/07/2020 14:20

Imperial have a vaccine in development too. We need multiple vaccines in development with multiple approaches because in the end they are all going to have differing levels of effectiveness, scalability, cost and the ease with which they can be delivered in different countries / societies /social settings. So the more international cooperation the better for all of us in the long run.

This is Boris reverting to his wish to take off his Clarke Kent glasses and make the U.K. the great trading nation, now with the competitive advantage of being Covid proofed. Except it won’t work that way because as a result of the same social media forces that Dom manipulated to bring them to power 1 in 6 will refuse the vaccine, and as long as Covid is raging anywhere in the world It will get transmitted and more people will die unnecessary. There was an outbreak of measles in West London schools earlier this year, hundreds of cases, concentrated in faith schools, especially ones where Christian Evangelicals have influence. It defies belief but if the measles jab is being refused in such numbers in certain pockets of society then it will certainly be the case for any Covid vaccine (and even worse in the US)

TheElementsOfMedical · 11/07/2020 14:36

Likely Venn diagram of research scientists trumpeted for working on Great Brexitannian COVID Vaccine and supporters of Brexit"

O O

(See also likely Venn diagram of research scientists trumpeted for working on Great Brexitannian Space Things Projects and supporters of Brexit)

Clavinova · 11/07/2020 14:37

This EU scheme worked well;

12th May;
"Dutch electronics giant Philips signed a contract with the European Commission to supply medical ventilators to EU hospitals, the company and EU officials said, in a deal that comes as most EU countries reached the peak of the COVID-19 outbreak."

"Other companies have signed similar contracts with the European Union as part of a joint procurement scheme the Commission launched in March on behalf of 25 EU states."

But no ventilator has yet been delivered under the scheme.

"Despite EU efforts at coordination, member countries have often moved alone in buying ventilators and other crucial gear. Some have even restricted the export to neighbours of medical equipment and drugs during the pandemic."

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-philips/eu-signs-contract-with-philips-on-ventilators-idUSKBN22O1LH

Jason118 · 11/07/2020 15:34

"Despite EU efforts at coordination, member countries have often moved alone in buying ventilators and other crucial gear. Some have even restricted the export to neighbours of medical equipment and drugs during the pandemic."

Pesky EU member states, exerting their sovereignty, you know, the one we never had.

Clavinova · 11/07/2020 16:31

Pesky EU member states, exerting their sovereignty, you know, the one we never had.

14th March - "In a shameful abdication of responsibility, fellow countries in the European Union have failed to give medical assistance and supplies to Italy during an outbreak."

"Last month [Feb] when COVID-19 began spreading rapidly in Italy, the country appealed for help via the Emergency Response Coordination Centre.“We asked for supplies of medical equipment, and the European Commission forwarded the appeal to the member states,” Italy’s permanent representative to the EU, Maurizio Massari, told me. “But it didn’t work.”

foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/coronavirus-eu-abandoning-italy-china-aid/

TheElementsOfMedical · 11/07/2020 17:11

Your occasional reminder: If anything, anywhere, at any time can be even tangentially shown to be less than perfect, therefore Brexitannia is Great.

Jason118 · 11/07/2020 17:51

14th March - "In a shameful abdication of responsibility, fellow countries in the European Union have failed to give medical assistance and supplies to Italy during an outbreak."

Pesky EU member states, exerting their sovereignty etc etc....

prettybird · 11/07/2020 17:56

Remind me again, how many working ventilators did Dyson supply? Hmm

Emilyontmoor · 11/07/2020 18:00

Excellent article on every aspect of the government's botch up / stitch up of a Covid response. www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/07/08/the-pro-privatization-shock-therapy-of-the-uks-covid-response/?fbclid=IwAR31Mx9henT8kIjX4ikUTjCmk375kfbeSkEpGGHnMw40NYXKQ3JA85Cla6U

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 18:05

Clav out of date as usual......

Since March, the German Air Force collected hundreds of critically ill patients from Italy, NL, also France (by rail)
and treated them in German hospitals

Other member countries also provided medical help to those in need

This was after Ursula von der Leyen (President of EU Commission) called on members to help each other

  • so looks like without the EU, countries would just have concentrated on helping their own people but at least with the EU they were prodded into helping their neighbours
BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 18:09

Vast Brexit customs clearance centre to be built in Kent
council given only hours’ notice of emergency purchase of 1.2m sq ft ‘Mojo’ site

Hours ? Confused
Panic stations - the government suddenly realised what they've let us in for

The council leader was only told yesterday
and hence had to rush out hand-delivered letters to local residents to warn them of what would be happening

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/10/vast-brexit-customs-clearance-centre-to-be-built-in-kent

BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2020 18:16

btw, after the initial rush for ventilators, doctors found it was better to give O2 instead,
so all member countries & the UK had enough already and contracts were left open.

Just as well, as the Dyson designs were rejected at the final approval stage by doctors
.... because they were only designed to keep patients alive for a few hours
So completely useless, as disconnecting patients from Dysons and then connecting again to proper ventilators would not have gone well for patients.

So many contracts given to Leave / Tory chums without going through the normal purchasing process and checks

Hasn't gone well ....

Oldmrswasherwoman · 11/07/2020 18:17

What on earth? I'll just leave this here...

twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1013786371096547328?s=19

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