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Brexit

Westministenders: Can you tell your Rs from Elbows?

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2020 19:38

This week Mark Sedwill has resigned (or was he pushed?) and David Frost (chief brexit lead) was appointed National Security Adviser in a move that enraged Theresa May. The former prime minister felt that his appointment was unprofessional and that was a political appointment not an independent one and that he lacked experience. Of course in terms of national security we still haven't had that report on Russia and I don't believe The Intelligence and Security Committee has yet been named (not sat since Johnson was appointed as PM).

We have passed the deadline for extending transition and we have now apparently said that negotiations on the end of transition will finish at the end of September.

The bill ending Free movement of people has been signed, amongst much fanfare by the Conservatives saying they have delivered on the Referendum promise. However we might have up to 3million Hong Kongers who we are willing to allow into the country which might not go down too well with those who were unhappy with 'unrestricted EU immigration'.

We also have the demonstration of utter incompetence, outsourcing and lack of coordination and communication from central government and local government in the covid-19 crisis. A national scandal that isn't being properly reported by the press and leave you with the very large question of who is this government serving? If its contract with Deloittes over testing didn't require them to report positive tests to Public Health England, what was the point in the testing? How can this be consistent with 'The Government’s new approach to biosecurity will bring together the UK’s world-leading epidemiological expertise and fuse it with the best analytical capability from across Government in an integrated approach.' and will provide real time analysis and assessment of infection outbreaks at a community level, to enable rapid intervention before outbreaks grow.?

The growing feeling that Brexit is being exploited by this government for personal interests and those of big business at the expense of the general public is one which was feared and grows harder to argue against by the day.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 13:12

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-spends-s-spinning-covid-response/
DfE spends £££s spinning Covid response

The Department for Education diverted an external PR agency promoting teaching vacancies to highlight its efforts to boost remote learning. It reallocated about 10 per cent of a £117,500 contract.

The government also splashed out on a sponsored post on Mail Online presenting the positive experiences of schools that reopened in June.

And

Last month, Four Communications, a PR firm that describes itself as “one of the leading integrated marketing agencies in the UK and the Middle East”, contacted journalists on behalf of the DfE, offering “content and advice and interviews from teachers and schools who are successfully working remotely”.

The press release also set out how the DfE had “committed over £100 million to boost remote education and this includes up to £2,000 per school to help them set up effective digital education platforms”.

And

Ben Verinder, who runs a PR agency that specialises in education, said: “It appears that the DfE has chosen to spend money on advertising as part of a campaign to reassure parents who are worried about sending their children back to school in September.

“However, it’s the experience of school and how safe they judge it to be that will determine the attitudes and behaviours of parents in the autumn. That in turn will be shaped by the support that schools receive from the government and others, rather than by adverts or any other kind of promotion.”

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 13:27

I've very open about being very VERY keen that the schools go back ASAP
but all of the guidance I've seen is such a shower of shit
I fully sympathise with teachers flatly refusing to plan for what will be an omnishambles clusterfuck

It would appear that the people writing the guidance are under 25 and live in Chelsea
as their awareness of how schools work
at primary
at secondary
at 6th form
where catchments are miles across
where cohort groups are up to 2000 pupils
is utterly lacking

Its another case where the Government obsession with cutting out local government and local public sector expertise
is biting the whole country on the bum

Peregrina · 10/07/2020 13:37

Dare I say it - the people writing the advice have children in private schools with spacious grounds and smaller class sizes? Plus extensive lab space and gyms, drama and art studios which can all be pressed into use as extra temporary classrooms.

Peregrina · 10/07/2020 13:47

I often notice a very urban centred approach on school threads. If you live in a rural area, for secondary at least, there is often one school which is feasible and the choice is liking it or lumping it, or making the best of what they offer.

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 13:50

Dare I say it - the people writing the advice have children in private schools with spacious grounds and smaller class sizes? Plus extensive lab space and gyms, drama and art studios which can all be pressed into use as extra temporary classrooms.
Such as Thomas' Battersea Grin
a school with so little open space that they have put buildings on stilts over part of the play area
and one with corridors so narrow that they would be illegal in a state school Grin

The great boarding schools might lave loads of space but London preps are so overcrowded that the accident book is A4 and always open Wink

In fact modern, single storey state primaries have huge advantages over places like Wetherby or Glendower which are crammed into Georgian townhouses ....

Hence my assumption that the wonks writing the guidance have no kids at all

Peregrina · 10/07/2020 13:54

I was thinking of the Etons of the country, or Radley, which I know first hand, which has spacious grounds, and a very nice music studio/concert hall.

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 14:01

Peregrina
Oh indeed, the boys over 13 are well sorted
except that boarding school houses will have rather a problem complying with the cohort bubble rules

but genuinely the way the guidance has been written I cannot think of a single type of school that can look at it and say
OK, that will work

and the fact that the DfE have vigorously and scrupulously avoided talking to LEAs and SEN teams
in the same way the DoH and PHE have sidelined local Public Health teams
has cost and is costing and will cost billions of pounds and thousands of lives

BigChocFrenzy · 10/07/2020 14:09

Marina Hyde: Chris Grayling's track record? There is no track: just a stretch of scorched earth

How the FUCK did he ever get another job after his first dismal failure,
let alone his dozen jobs with iirc over £2 billion wasted and ..... scorched earth ....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/10/chris-grayling-chair-intelligence-committee-

In the event of nuclear devastation, almost certainly somehow caused by Chris Grayling,
Chris Grayling would not simply survive,
but there would be someone surveying the ash cloud and the onset of nuclear winter going:

“You know what, clearing this up looks like a job for Chris Graylingg^.”

Please don’t ask by what arcane Downing Street process committee appointments such as Grayling’s are decided.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/07/2020 14:18

Firm with links to Gove and Cummings given Covid-19 contract without open tender

It's researching public attitudes to govt policy, so hardly vital emergency work

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/10/firm-with-links-to-gove-and-cummings-given-covid-19-contract-without-open-tender

The government justified the absence of a competitive tendering process,
which would have enabled other companies to bid, under emergency regulations that allow services to be urgently commissioned in response to the Covid-19 crisis.

However, the Cabinet Office’s public record states that
portions of the work, which involved focus group research, related to Brexit rather than Covid-19

HoneysuckIejasmine · 10/07/2020 14:44

My kids go to a "hamlet" school. In the middle of nowhere (hence, hamlet). Fab for small class sizes, outdoor space... It's also a lovely large building, modern extension and loads of indoor space. The whole school can fit, socially distanced, in the hall at the same time. (Big hall, small roll).

The schools I've worked in though.... God no. I taught a core subject so at least it could be delivered to whatever mixes bunch was before me, but optional subjects... Nightmare. Hence the "year group bubbles" I guess, next to useless considering sibling links and school transport.

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 15:09

BigChoc
My NAO connections are already rolling up their sleeves on some of these contracts
hopefully ACOBA will be given some teeth and balls by the next government this one is in too deep

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 15:13

Growing up in the 1970s, baby boom, our primary and middle school had mobile classrooms (after they had added an extension to the building).

Moving to High School, they had to "uncondemn" some outside classrooms and put in some mobile classrooms and extend 3 parts of the school building.

And at 6th form there were 8 mobile classrooms on the edge of the playing fields.

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 15:17

yorkshirebylines.co.uk/eu-launches-its-own-shock-and-awe-campaign-early/

For some weeks the British government has been planning a “shock and awe” campaign to warn British businesses that they have less than six months to prepare for Brexit; but the EU has beaten them to it.

(contd)

TheMShip · 10/07/2020 15:38

@BigChocFrenzy Marina is the hydelight of my week (see what I did there?). I am crying with laughter over that Grayling column.

The top pick comment is also gold.

I feel like I should be outraged about this, but I just don't have the energy anymore. The best I can muster is a wry chuckle. My favourite bit of Grayling trivia was the NYT having to correct an article saying he had wasted an estimated 2.7 million when the true figure was 2.7 billion. Like they couldn't quite comprehend the magnitude of the man's stupidity.
Anyway, I full expect him to have inadvertently started WW3 by next Tuesday.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 10/07/2020 15:44

@DGRossetti

yorkshirebylines.co.uk/eu-launches-its-own-shock-and-awe-campaign-early/

For some weeks the British government has been planning a “shock and awe” campaign to warn British businesses that they have less than six months to prepare for Brexit; but the EU has beaten them to it.

(contd)

I feel this will come as a shock to many. I'm a little shocked by the range of the changes and I knew about a lot of them already.
DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 15:46

I've had a chance to read that EU document now. At any other time, it might have been newsworthy. But these are "interesting times".

Highlights:

Customs formalities on goods

Customs rules required under EU law will apply to all goods entering the customs territory of the EU from the United Kingdom, or leaving that customs territory to the United Kingdom. Even if an ambitious free trade area is established with the EU, providing for zero tariffs and zero quotas on goods with customs and regulatory cooperation, all the regulatory non-tariff barriers, usually far more costly in extra paperwork and delays than any tariff, will still apply.

Rules of origin

Again, if we agree a trade deal with zero tariffs, goods traded will have to be shown (with evidence if necessary) to have a minimum percentage of UK content in order for them to be entitled to preferential zero-tariff-zero-quota treatment. It’s worth bearing in mind that most cars manufactured in the UK do not meet the minimum percentage set out in the EU- Korean FTA, for example, which is 55 per cent.

Aviation

Air carriers holding operating licences granted by the UK licensing authority for the commercial carrying by air of passengers, mail and/or cargo, will no longer be able to provide air transport services within the European Union. EU air carriers and holders of aviation safety certificates will need to ensure and uphold compliance with EU requirements, including airlines’ requirements on principal place of business and EU majority ownership and control, as well as the EU aviation safety acquis communitaire.

Visitors and tourists

UK nationals travelling to the European Union and the Schengen area will be treated as third-country nationals, and therefore subject to thorough checks at the Schengen area border. This means that intended stays cannot have a duration of more than 90 days in any 180-day period, and UK nationals will have to meet the entry conditions for third-country nationals. They can also no longer make use of the EU/EEA/CH fast lanes reserved for persons enjoying the right to free movement when crossing the border.

Visa requirements

UK nationals will remain exempt from the requirement to be in possession of visas when crossing the EU’s external borders for short-term stays (up to 90 days in any 180-day period). However, this visa exemption does not provide for the right to work in the EU and is subject to the reciprocity mechanism applying to third countries. In other words, it could be suspended if EU citizens would cease to be given visa-free access to the United Kingdom for short stays.

Pets

An EU pet passport issued to a pet owner resident in the United Kingdom will no longer be a valid document for travelling with pets from the UK to any of the EU member states. The requirements for pets accompanying those travelling in the future will be set by the EU.

Roaming charges

EU law will no longer guarantee access for UK citizens to roam-like-at-home in the European Union; nor will it be guaranteed for EU nationals travelling to the UK. Both UK and EU mobile operators will thus be able to apply a surcharge on roaming customers should they wish to do so.

Haulage companies and lorry drivers

UK hauliers will no longer be able to operate within the single market.

The access rights that EU operators and UK operators will have to each other’s respective markets will depend on the outcome of the future relationship negotiations. Without an agreement, only the limited quotas under the European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) will be available for EU operators to conduct journeys to the United Kingdom, and for UK operators to conduct journeys to the EU.

Note the Freight Transport Association estimated in evidence to the House of Lords that “ECMT permits would cover 2 per cent to 5 per cent of [our] transport needs.”

Border formalities will also affect drivers as well as passengers and cross-border workers. This includes border checks on persons – entailing the verification of entry and stay requirements, stamping of passports, and visa requirements if applicable.

Services

Authorisations granted by UK authorities under the EU single market framework will no longer be valid in the EU. This has particular relevance for the areas of financial services, transport, audiovisual media, and energy services.

In order to access the Union market, UK service providers and professionals established in the United Kingdom will need to demonstrate compliance with any rules, procedures and/or authorisations that cover the provision of services in the EU by foreign nationals and/or companies outside the EU. Those requirements are frequently set out in national regimes, meaning a lot of separate negotiating will be required with 27 separate markets.

Certificates issued by UK authorities

Certificates or authorisations issued by UK authorities, or by bodies based in the United Kingdom, will no longer be valid for placing products on the EU market. This means, for instance, that a car with a type approval issued by the UK can no longer be sold in the single market. Where EU law requires certification by an EU notified body – such as for some medical devices, machinery, personal protective equipment or construction products – products certified by UK-based bodies will no longer be allowed to be sold within the single market.

Professional qualifications

The UK will no longer be covered by EU rules on the recognition of professional qualifications. The recognition of qualifications obtained in EU member states by UK citizens will need to be confirmed by UK law. This means UK nationals, irrespective of where they acquired their qualifications, and EU citizens with qualifications acquired in the United Kingdom will need to have them formally recognised in the relevant member state.

Audio visual services

Businesses established in the United Kingdom will no longer be able to benefit from the country-of-origin principle of the Audiovisual and Media Services Directive. Providers will need to comply with each of the rules of the relevant member state in which they would want to provide their services. This will affect our creative industries, including television and film companies such as the BBC, for whom the single market will no longer exist.

Chemicals

EU rules on the registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals (REACH) will no longer apply in the United Kingdom. Registrations held by manufacturers and producers established in the United Kingdom will no longer be valid in the EU. These companies will have to ensure that their substances are registered with a manufacturer or importer in the EU, or appoint a person in the EU who is legally responsible for that import as official registrant for the substance.

Downstream users will have to check whether substances they use are properly registered.

International agreements

The UK will no longer be covered by the agreements concluded by the EU or by member states acting on behalf of the EU, or by the EU and its member states jointly. The EU informed its international partners of the consequences of Brexit by way of a ‘note verbale’ sent after signature of the Withdrawal Agreement.

UK nationals and economic operators will no longer be able to benefit from several hundred international agreements of the EU such as free trade agreements, mutual recognition agreements, veterinary agreements or bilateral agreements in relation to air transport or aviation safety. This is an added incentive to businesses to establish in the EU where they will continue to benefit from all existing EU international agreements.

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 15:50

(Blows dust off Italian passport)

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 16:21

DGR
There is nothing in that document that was not in these threads a couple of years ago.
Anybody who is surprised by it should not be in a decision making position

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 16:31

@ListeningQuietly

DGR There is nothing in that document that was not in these threads a couple of years ago. Anybody who is surprised by it should not be in a decision making position
?

I wasn't saying there was. But I thought having it in a cut-out-and-keep format might help concentrate some minds ...

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 16:38
Smile I suspect that most of the posters, lurkers and visitors to these threads are rather more concentrated on the issue than the twonks in Whitehall

the type who are thinking of giving Grayling responsibility for more than making tea again

Peregrina · 10/07/2020 16:41

Such as Thomas' Battersea a school with so little open space that they have put buildings on stilts over part of the play area and one with corridors so narrow that they would be illegal in a state school

My first thought on reading that was that people are daft enough to pay good money for such schooling.

ListeningQuietly · 10/07/2020 16:54

Peregrina
It was crowded even before the Royals turned up Grin

And actually its not the worst ...
there are others in that area that pack so many kids in that they have built on most of their playgrounds
and they rely on Battersea Park as the outdoor sports field

In the old days crocodiles of kids would walk through the streets to the Duke of York's field (now houses) or Battersea Park or Kensington Gardens
not sure how that would work with Social distancing

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 16:57

@Peregrina

Such as Thomas' Battersea a school with so little open space that they have put buildings on stilts over part of the play area and one with corridors so narrow that they would be illegal in a state school

My first thought on reading that was that people are daft enough to pay good money for such schooling.

Who cares about the schooling ? As long as you get "posh twot" stamped on your CV then it's job done.

Rossettis law of economics states that as price increases linearly, value/quality increases hardly at all.

So a £10 bottle of wine is not twice as good as a £5 bottle of wine. Maybe 10% better (if you can tell ...) ?

A £100 meal out for two is not twice as good as a £50 meal out for two.

And so on.

Yet another thing I am frequently told I am "wrong thinking" about.

DGRossetti · 10/07/2020 16:59

In the old days crocodiles of kids would walk through the streets to the Duke of York's field (now houses) or Battersea Park or Kensington Gardens

If you walked over Harrow on the Hill on a Sunday morning, you'd see the Harrow kids walking to church in uniform with straw boaters. I wonder how many of them went on to become third world despots ?

Pepperwort · 10/07/2020 17:10

Has anyone picked up the breaking scandal of the test results yet?

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-inside-story-of-how-uks-chaotic-testing-regime-broke-all-the-rules-12022566
Keir Starmer's picked it up too and has already fired off questions.

What the Sky news report shows to my eyes is just how broken the systems are at the lower levels. It started with Blair centralising and forcing totally irrelevant targets; now government actively ignores our professionals' advice and treats them with total contempt.

I also link it up to IT, which was supposed to help us - does in some areas. In others it has been used to undermine the deep-rooted knowledge of how systems and people work best together founded in the experience of decades, even centuries.