Westminstenders: Following the EU lead

[RedToothBrush]

Coronavirus poses a particularly Irish shaped question. How the UK responds to Irish plans for ending lockdown and whether Arlene continues to back an all Ireland plan will be fascinating to watch and see justified regardless of which way we go.

The UK for all its new found independence is looking very closely to the success / failure of EU strategies before making our own plan public. Mainly because we've yet to write one.

Johnson hasn't led much. He's delegated. Yet he gets all the praise for doing the sum total of fuck all and never being the bad guy. There always another fall guy to blame.

Economically we are stuffed and promises of a very quick bounce back don't look likely based on public confidence and willingness to return to places like pubs restaurants and shops.

Our ability to adapt to new conditions at short notice has been tested and businesses can not afford to do this again soon.

This is the background to which we go into talks. Both sides need an extension to serve their best interests. Johnson is determined to cut our nose of to spite our face for the sake of his legacy and to keep those paying the back handers and dodging tax happy.

You’re welcome. You the ways it can be interpreted can differ markedly, found that back and forth v interesting.

I have understood it to mean that an individual must first look to themselves for a solution to their problems, not to society.

I am going to disagree and say that some things must be done at a community or society level. I instanced clean water. We have clean water and sewage partly because of the 19th Century cholera epidemic. In a sparsely populated agricultural society each family could have their own well and deal with their own effluent, but this is impossible in an urban society. It has to be tackled at a higher level.

Some provision like education is better provided at a society level - unless one is happy to live in a society where only some people are educated and the majority not. It might have worked in feudal times, it won't now.

Don’t even see much at all to disagree about there Peregrina
“For profit” provision of water is wrong, for me, and always was.

But I think you would have to agree that each family providing its own water supply isn't efficient, and this is where Mrs Thatcher's ideas fell down.

Each family provides their own transport; we have pollution and roads clogged with cars - so it needs coordination at a higher level to provide public transport.

I am agreeing with you

Mrs T was influenced by Derek Hatton and Ken Livingstone to hate all of Local Government.
She started a centralisation process that has - in the current situation
shown its colours as disastrous.

BigChoc has rightly highlighted that the different German States have adjusted things to meet their different needs.
As have the competent US states / Counties / Townships
as have as per LeClerc and current posters the French Mairies

Only in the UK are Local Councils not actually in control of anything while technically responsible for everything
( Academy schools, private care homes, PFI contracts etc ad nauseam )
The whole PHE system is predicated on a lack of trust of local decision making

I think now is the perfect time for a new thread.

It's not a time to argue. It's a time to come together. And at least on this thread, we have largely agreed. Albeit there will always be the Brexit divide. But this has been the most eloquent thread on MN surely? Let's keep it that way.

Local Govt. has been stripped of almost all its financial support from central taxation. It has been encouraged to be more reliant on raising its own funds through charges for parking, use of leisure facilities etc, all of which have now disappeared almost overnight.

Mockers
Let alone the leveraged investment in commercial property
which is going to go HORRIBLY wrong a lot sooner than even I though

And in Snobby Roberts day, there were two ways to get into Kesteven Girls. You could pass the eleven plus, or you could pay if your parents were rich and you were thick.

How come I can't chose my water supplier ?

And there the entire house of cards bollocks about private v. public falls away.

Energy is another breeding ground for the sharks.

The UK is completely unsuited to US style private competition. It's smaller than most US states FFS.

Exactly why DGR I would agree the privatising water and energy supply was wrong.

Belarus VE day: One leader looks hell-bent on turning COVID-19 into a catastrophe for his country

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-one-leader-looks-hell-bent-on-turning-covid-19-into-a-catastrophe-for-his-country-11985736

The country's president said he had no choice but to hold the parade where children and military veterans crammed in.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3904485-Westminstenders-Political-vacuums-are-very-bad-things

New thread

Louise - I found it hard to get upset with Scotland and Wales announcing what's happening. There has needed to be leadership - around me, there is quite a proportion of the community who have been acting like lockdown is going to end...... where the numbers tell you if it does , it's going to be carnage. Those countries leaders are showing leadership- something we desperately need.

We used to have private fire brigades who would only put your fire out if you had paid your subs. And if next door was on fire and they hadn't paid, you would have to wait until your house caught fire before they would act.

We used to have private fire brigades who would only put your fire out if you had paid your subs. And if next door was on fire and they hadn't paid, you would have to wait until your house caught fire before they would act.

And so insurance was born ...

the problem was that canny warehouse owners damn well knew that even if they weren't insured, the fire companies had instructions from the insurance companies to put out fires in buildings either side of an insured building to save them money. Which eventually led to the radical socialist notion that everyone should benefit from the fire service.

They used to have brass plaques on insured buildings.

They used to have brass plaques on insured buildings.

They still do on some Cotswold buildings.

The UK gov have a lot to answer for. I fucking hate their incompetence. and I hate them cheering when a 1% pay increase for nurses was defeated in HOP a while back; pricks.

Some MPs cheered (Tim Farron, Lib Dems, referred to DUP MPs at the time) when Labour's amendment to the Queen's Speech was defeated in June 2017.The amendment was a political stunt by the Labour Party in an attempt to vote down the Queen's Speech two weeks after they had lost the 2017 general election - Labour still thought they had a chance of gaining power at that time. Nurses were not specifically named in the wording of the amendment.

"[Heidi] Allen, who voted against the amendment, said that she couldn’t vote in favour because of “additional incorrect statements” it contained, particularly regarding the Grenfell Tower fire."

"Pls read the amendment- pretty obvs as says gov didn't recognise emergency services at Grenfell Tower tragedy! Totally untrue!"

"Allen described [Labour's] amendment as “too partisan”... “Public services includes the very highest paid chief executives, managers, Whitehall chiefs too."

“I cannot support a blanket pay rise to all of those."

home.bt.com/news/news-extra/heres-why-tory-mps-who-want-the-public-sector-pay-cap-scrapped-voted-against-labours-amendment-11364192044153

a 1% pay increase for nurses was defeated in HOP a while back

June 2018 -

"More than one million NHS workers in England will receive a three-year pay deal worth 6.5% after staff voted in favour of the offer."

"Hospital cleaners, nurses, security guards, physiotherapists, emergency call handlers, paramedics, midwives, radiographers and other NHS staff across England will receive the rise."

"They should now get the money in their July pay packets, backdated from April."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44413436