Westminstenders: All bets are off

[RedToothBrush]

We are seeking an extension. Apparently. No prizes for guessing why.

There is no news but COVID news. And that's all there will be for a long time.

Enjoy your stockpile and your sunny uplands it brought.

Keep safe.

I’m sorry, am I not capable of judging for myself how to understand a presentational style?

“Can” and “will” aren’t being mixed, they mean fundamentally different things.

For me, so long as we emerge from this with the minimum number of avoidable deaths, then I’m pretty unconcerned about which strategy is pursued to achieve that.

Personally, I’d be prepared for the government to be more draconian than it is being and that’s as someone who believes firmly that more choice being exercised by the individual is generally a good thing.

What matters, I think, is that people do what they are told to do, and I’ve seen substantial evidence this morning with my own eyes (school gate chaos) that they aren’t.

Sorry, missed a word out, that should have read “much more draconian”

I suspect much of the UK population is in utter panic

Not here in London they aren't, well apart from needing massive amounts of bogroll because they are such huge arseholes. Boris's libertarian lead means people taking their entire family to Iceland and barging past the security guard during the hour set aside for the elderly and vulnerable so that each can have 2 24 packs of toilet roll.

Streets and tube stations are busy. Pubs only half empty. I went to the garden centre today to buy seeds thinking it would be empty enough to socially distance but it was packed, mostly with over 70s. One old lady came up to me and put her arm around me, which normally I would reciprocate but I pointed out the need for social distancing and she said it was all hysteria. Meanwhile returning to Hong Kong you are put into self isolation for 14 days and given a wrist tag to make sure you do it. I always said that I did not think that the UK population would be as compliant as Hong Kongers were when we lived there through SARs but this has exceeded my worst expectations. It is terrifying because it is so obvious what is coming.

And it is obvious that nothing short of an army imposed lockdown is going to get people to act sensibly

My DD is an essential worker, and actually involved in the race to understand the virus, and her flatmate likewise, as a civil servant, but they are put at risk by this massive failure of public policy.

Most people are being sensible.

What we need is a selfish idiot virus, spread by pasta and excess toilet rolls.

What we need is a selfish idiot virus, spread by pasta and excess toilet rolls.

Seconded!

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In France, 3 doctors are suing the PM and former health minister on the grounds that they were aware of the dangers, had means to act and did not do enough to slow the epidemic.

We'll never agree on this, Louise

Its not politics - I can't stand Thatcher, but I regarded her as talented, organised and highly competent
I disagreed with Major, but even while he was PM, I thought he was a very decent hard-working bloke who e.g. laid much of the groundwork for the GFA

BJ is a dishonest, workshy incompetent, who cba with detail
He blunders about, worsening many problems he touches, e.g. Nazanin

Having observed several other UK PMs and world leaders over the decades, his performance is far far inferior - except for Trump

BJ is regarded across Europe and much of the US as an idiot
My neighbours refer to him as "that arsehole"
Even those in Germany on the right who supported him before this crisis now condemn him as a fool

And it is obvious that nothing short of an army imposed lockdown is going to get people to act sensibly

I don't agree. I think if there was someone capable of expressing the gravity of the situation, communicating a plan and enforcing it, enough people would comply. The British are no less disciplined or rebellious than their neighbours over the channel. The French have by and large accepted stringent measures without protest. Yes some people aren't respecting the rules as well as they could, but the vast majority are.

Well at least you’re honest BigChoc. I really don’t expect people to agree with me, if they did I’d be very surprised.

Interesting point Misti, pretty obv IMO who that should be in the UK, and it isn’t Boris Johnson. Interestingly the first word on CV-19 has come belatedly I’d say from Her Majesty.

Most people would obey clear instructions in this emergency
but many won't believe mere "advice" is that serious

Read any MN thread to see how confused peope are about what BJ / the govt is saying
and how the confusion enables many to justify in their heads, continuing their entertainment and leisure activities

Hence why a leader must speak very clearly, as e.g. Varadkar did, explaining what must be done and why,
plus in Varadkar's case a bit of inspiration for his people - but I accept he was exceptional in that

The monarch is a figurehead, not a leader
She'll give a speech if someone tells her what to say
She's not in COBRA meetings, not giving any orders to anyone

On her own, she can only give sympathy and banalities on Corona, because govt strategy is confusing and in flux,
so she doesn't want to put her royal foot in it.

It's a very long time since monarchs were of practical use

Even back as far as WW2, BJ's hero Churchill was doing the leading, the explanations, the stirring speeches to the nation;
just rolled out King George every now & again to boost morale

You know I wonder if the surge for bogroll isn't a simple reaction to the price of tissues ?

Totally Agree, re HM not being a leader in the practical sense.

I do think that, “to explain the gravity of the situation” as I think Misti put it, her voice would be uniquely powerful, worldwide even. She is after all someone who lived through a World War and the incredible tensions that followed. In that she is now unquine among heads of state in that regard.

They needed to give instructions not advice, 2 weeks ago. by ignoring the evidence from other countries and advice from experts then have endangered everyone in the UK. After Italy, they really had no excuse not to act 2 weeks ago. Politics and pig headedness, arrogance, and ignorence, excluding experts, the list goes on. I will follow the French doctors case against the health authorities very closely.

howmuchtoiletpaper.com/

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Friend has just forwarded me a message from her niece who's a doctor in Strasbourg.
She says complications are totally unpredictable and are affecting 30-yr-olds with no prior medical history, who've never smoked. They are making the same triage choices as in Italy and people are dying all the time.

That's worrying, Auld.

I'd like to know why the government needs emergency powers for up to 2 years, if they can 'send this virus packing' in 12 weeks?

Advice is not good enough at this stage, they must be instructions - much though I hate that thought, and appreciate the underlying effect on civil liberties.

Just saying 'dont go to the pub/cinema/theatre/whatever' is nowhere near the same as closing these places - and recompensing staff/business owners so they have jobs/businesses to go back to.

Yes.
The niece texted my friend to say that if you're not in the hospitals you can't imagine what it's like, and to urge her to stay at home and tell her friends and family to do the same.
My friend is 50 and has been doing just that, but can't persuade her DP to.

Mistigris Perhaps but we don't have that do we? Just Boris saying he would not lock down London, unless of course the lying toad does. So people are just not getting it, or rather they are, and they will find out in two weeks time what that means. The irony is that if Boris went full on Churchillian like Varadkar, which to be fair, like the Captain in Galaxy 5 would be his forte, as opposed to actually steering the ship, his voter base might respond but Dumming's populist liberatarian agenda won't allow that.

And it seems none of the lessons learnt in Asia are taken seriously, until the same lessons are learnt again in Italy and Spain. Our health workers are going into action armed only with plastic aprons, gloves and masks (witnessed this at the local hospital ). In Hong Kong during SARs we weren't just taught how to wash our hands, and not touch our faces, we were informed about concepts like viral load, every reduction in exposure keeps you safer and less likely to die. And those working in the NHS know that full well.

Emily I am very worried about the U.K. You have the worst possible PM at the worst possible time.

Auld, I'm hearing that they aren't even counting deaths in EHPADs (care homes). People are dying without being tested. (This has happened in Italy too).

We won't know how many this has killed until we see the excess mortality rates.