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Brexit

Westminstenders: All bets are off

974 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/03/2020 21:38

We are seeking an extension. Apparently. No prizes for guessing why.

There is no news but COVID news. And that's all there will be for a long time.

Enjoy your stockpile and your sunny uplands it brought.

Keep safe.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 16:41

"the buck stops here" for the leader of any country

Well, you'd think. The past few years in UK and US politics have been a persistent pressure to try and diffuse and dilute responsibility, so it's "no ones" fault. Ever. Aided by various whitewash "inquiries" that were set up to ensure no one was ever to blame for anything.

It's a hobby horse of mine, but the surgical removal of an innocent mans head with large calibre dum dum bullets, and subsequent findings that nobody whatsoever - on this plane or the next - had any blame whatsoever left a very nasty taste in the Rossetti mouth. Imagine all the other things that could happen and be "nobodys fault" ? I'd rather not.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 16:42

US may become next centre of coronavirus pandemic, says WHO

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/us-may-become-centre-of-coronavirus-pandemic-who-says

LouiseCollins28 · 24/03/2020 16:49

I acutally agree on the perils of diluting responsibility and whitewash enquiries. This is a very unwelcome thing IMO, and deflecting blame isn’t acceptable. Could you clarify what the “surgical removal of a mans head....”dum dum bullets” is about? I’m missing the reference there.

LouiseCollins28 · 24/03/2020 16:55

Hehe!! 😂 I think I see the elephant trap there, “Chancellor of Germany” deserves respect, nice try, DGR nice try! If you’d read what I posted correctly I didn’t say “deserves” I said “receives” respect.

DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 16:58

Could you clarify what the “surgical removal of a mans head....”dum dum bullets” is about? I’m missing the reference there.

Jean Charles de Menezes. Innocent victim of a cock up beyond belief. Had his head removed (well pureed is a better description) by 7 Met Police bullets fired by firearms officers.

Why ? Was it because they personally had evidence he was a risk to others ?

No, it was because the huge clown-footed "intelligence" operatives that had managed to completely bungle the identification had told them so.

Now where I come from, killing someone is called "murder", and is very unpopular. So much so that the entire weight of criminal and common law requires very very very very very very clear and definite circumstances before it can be excused. And "Bob told be he as a bad man" is not one of them.

Either the officer that fired the shots were guilty. Or the morons that told them JCdM was a terrorist are guilty. Or the Officer that authorised the use of "Kratos" is guilty. But amazingly, it turned out that none of them were. Apparently we - the Great British public - are supposed to accept that "these things happen".

The poor tube driver came within a millisecond of losing his head too, by the way. That was smuggled very carefully into the enquiry so no one heard it.

There are loads of countries around the world where police effectively executing an innocent man wouldn't even make the news. But I don't like the idea that the UK is one.

(There's also a few sinister aspects to the whole case, like the "eyewitness" that was speaking to the TV crews before he could have got to the surface and managed to provide a wonderfully detailed description of what happened that was entirely fictitious).

Oh dear, I got all ranty again ... still, timers just gone off, so time to put dinner in the oven ....

DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 17:13

Over 700 new deaths in Italy, and 87 in UK Sad

prettybird · 24/03/2020 17:28

Respect is something that has to be earned.....

Mockerswithnoknockers · 24/03/2020 17:28

The Menezes Murder by Cressida Dick and others will hopefully be brought to trial at some point in the future.

I remember one dissenting voice at the time who called it a crime was one B Johnson, mayoral candidate.

yoikes · 24/03/2020 17:32

I had news today...

My aunt is sitting up in bed and called my cousin a bitch! (She doesn't always realise what shes saying...) Soooo....
I think she might be turning the corner 🙄😂

She will outlive us all!!! (She's 89!)

Thank you for the good wishes. A couple of ky cousins are SI now but are ok as far as I know.

I am now a keyworker apparently!! According to the Govt and Trussell trust anyway...

Trying to sort out a better way to run session.

Those figures are very worrying dgr :(

DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 17:33

Respect is something that has to be earned....

DFs advice was to respect the uniform, not the person.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 17:37

Being contrary, DG
I can see that a chain of cockups, none criminal in themselves, can lead to an innocent man being shot dead

imo though, those who cocked up should have their career killed, not be promoted

Also, unlike some, I refuse to brush over the notorious instances in NI when British security forces deliberately murdered people in cold blood,
refuse to accept a statute of limitations on murder, war crimes
(under international law, it doesn't stop being a war crime just because a govt claims it isn't a war)

including e.g. 11 random innocent civilians who were just going about their business - the Ballymurphy murders shortly before Bloody Sunday
and yes, if one massacre is ignored by the authorities then a following one is predictable

DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 17:39

"The Praetorian Guard Problem". One of the books I could write on lockdown ...

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 17:40

Oh wow, Yoikes Your aunt 😂😂

Fantastic news if she can come through this after all

(and don't assume she didn't know she was saying "bitch" ! 😂
she may have decided now's the time to stop being tactful)

AuldAlliance · 24/03/2020 17:44

Yoikes that is great news.

If evidence were needed that these threads are always way ahead of the curv, even when jokes are being made, we now have it.
A baby in Strasbourg has just been named Korona.
I kid you not.

Fivefourthree · 24/03/2020 17:47

Yoikes I just did a little happy dance for your Aunt 💃

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 17:47

Maybe after the beer ?
< it's fucking mad when you hope a baby has been named after booze >

DGRossetti · 24/03/2020 17:47

A baby in Strasbourg has just been named Korona. I kid you not.

It's only modern ears and sensibilities that would find that odd. A trawl through names of history would reveal a fascinating world of diversity and stories.

One of my DFs Sikh friends has a son called "Jolly". Not because it's in any way a Sikh name. But because when his mother was pregnant with him, she nearly lost him, and the doctor that saved him was Dr. .... Jolly.

Fivefourthree · 24/03/2020 17:49

I don't think you live to 89 without being tough and a bit crabby bless her!

ListeningQuietly · 24/03/2020 17:49

yoikes
Glad that the morphine gave your Aunt's body time to recharge and turn her back into a feisty swearer.

BigChoc
My big issue is with ventilators rather than medical care in general.
I know several people who have been put on them in emergency situations
all lived long enough to come off the ventilator
none lived to leave hospital
the relatives who with each of them have signed NEVER to have it done to them
Quality over quantity

but as DGR rightly says, big pharma makes little money out of gentle palliative care / hospices

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 17:59

Listening Ventilators have a substantial risk of lung and other organ damage whatever the age

I object to singling out "old" people, any more than other groups with a poor prognosis
We shouldn't decide for a group of other people that their lives won't be worth living

fwiw, I would personally choose death rather than e.g. an operation that would damage my brain, or make me blind or wheelchair bound
.... but I thought the same 30 years ago wrt those

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 24/03/2020 18:00

Colleague reported today that a German supplier has been so locked down for 2 weeks that staff can't use their business mobiles or computers. He didn't know until he was contacted by someone using a personal mobile.

pointythings · 24/03/2020 18:11

yoikes that's great news about your aunt. I'm all for indestructible old people, I'm planning to be one some day.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 18:11

Of course, if there is a shortage of machines, the person who would live the longest with a good quality of life should be first in the queue

My objection was to you saying the economy should come first, before saving old people

Young & middle aged people with T2, high BMI, BP etc would normally live several decades more;
many of the elderly would live at least a few years more

These measures are intended to reduce the number of people of all ages ever needing ventilators,
because if people need them and don't get them, then they'll almost all die
and if they do get them, then many will suffer longterm damage and need many months of rehab

Don't even think of the civil disorder, maybe attempted invasions of hospitals,
if thousands of young & middle-aged people realise their loved ones are dying due to a shortage of equipment - that another patient is on

Grinchlywords · 24/03/2020 18:23

That's wonderful news Yoikes !

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2020 18:36

Don't drink from the fishtank, folks !

Coronavirus: Man dies after drinking fish tank cleaner to prevent virus^

www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/coronavirus-man-dies-after-drinking-21743881

A Phoenix couple in their 60s took chloroquine - which they'd used to clean a fish tank - with disastrous results
after hearing Donald Trump suggest the substance in its medical form could be a 'game changer' in the fight against coronavirus