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Brexit

Westminstenders: All bets are off

974 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/03/2020 21:38

We are seeking an extension. Apparently. No prizes for guessing why.

There is no news but COVID news. And that's all there will be for a long time.

Enjoy your stockpile and your sunny uplands it brought.

Keep safe.

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 23:12

As usual, you can rely on BJ .... to reverse himself

OhMargo · 21/03/2020 23:14

Does anyone think we might get Italy stats.

Shudders now.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 23:17

The UK is about 2 weeks behind Italy, on the curves
and has just over half the critical care beds

BJ has got to start full lockdown -and start it on Sunday, to avoid Mother's Day becoming notorious in future history lessons on this

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 23:21

For the best chance, BJ needs to copy this, get ahead of Italy in taking action.

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

NEW: In latest address to the nation,

Italian Prime Minister Guissepe Conte announces further lockdown measures, all “non-essential” factories are to close.

Conte says this is Italy’s gravest crisis since the Second World War.
< and boy, they've had lots of crises >

Essentially, save for banks, pharmacies, supermarkets and hospitals (and public transport for their workers) Conte has shut the rest of Italy down.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2020 23:27

Peter Foster@pmdfoster

So. Word reportedly being shared round medical professionals is that petrol pump (handles) are serious vector for ‪#Covid_19‬ ‪#coronavirus‬

- use gloves or wash hands after filling.

OhMargo · 21/03/2020 23:27

Few seem to be the least bit bothered, and Government is high up there also imv.. Despite all their talk.

Every person for themselves now I think.

The trajectory for this is not looking good for UK is it? Best be prepared.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2020 23:38

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/10-days-that-changed-britains-coronavirus-approach?__twitter_impression=true

This is a car crash of an article.

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SwedishEdith · 21/03/2020 23:44

Oh, I was only thinking today about petrol pumps. I'm avoiding driving as much as possible to save fuel and was wondering that I'd need to have a cloth/old tea towel in the car to hold the pump.

SwedishEdith · 21/03/2020 23:51

Just wondered (apart from the current crisis in UK), if many would risk travelling abroad even when (if) this CV issue might resolve itself?

Travelling abroad when? Post vaccination/acquired immunity - I hope so. But not before then.

SwedishEdith · 21/03/2020 23:54

PM says people must not visit their mothers on mother's day

But he said he would see his mother when asked at that press conference last week. Tbh, he should be socially distancing anyway because of CS being pregnant.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2020 23:57

Swedish petrol pumps are a hot spot but also have the same potential as credit card payment machines in supermarkets, touch screens, lift buttons. It's a shared surface for service.

Post boxes, rubbish bins and park benched aren't supposed to be great either

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SwedishEdith · 22/03/2020 00:02

Oh, I've been using elbows, scarves, gloves, paper towels for weeks now.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2020 00:12

This is an interesting thread and I wonder if the reason other countries haven't had such problems could be because their supermarkets are so heavily invested and dependent on just in time and people don't eat out as much. The combination of the two in the UK is enough to make the difference? This is certainly thought provoking

Greg Callus @greg_callus
I strongly suspect there isn't actually much panic buying or hoarding in the way we imagine. Supermarkets in the UK took £193.4bn in revenue in 2019, which is £3.7bn/week. £1bn extra has been added over 3 weeks: approx 10% rise per week for 3 weeks. That's small, give that...

Huge swathes of the population who were eating 1 (or even 2 or 3) meals out (cafe breakfast, Pret lunch, work dinner) are now home-working so eating at home & many kids aren't getting school meals. Inexperienced cooks, new to it, invariably buy too much (quantity & variety).

Then remember people are being encouraged to social distance, so they want to minimise shopping trips, so will get durables just in case (batteries, candles and - yes - toilet rolls). So the increase in purchasing is very modest, explicable, even justified. So why empty shelves?

UK Supermarkets are masterful: cheap goods at low margin in huge bulk, with highly sophisticated FMCG just-in-time supply chains. If you operate a Tesco Metro in Central London, you don't (a) carry excess stock (just exactly right amount based on models): wasted working capital

(b) rent very expensive premises with larger stock rooms than you need when stock-minimisation & just-in-time replenishment is part of the financial model that makes it profitable at all. That entire model for all supermarkets is based on predicable and modelled seasonal demand.

Remember all the Brexit/No Deal/Just-in-Time supply chain we talked about? How even slight shifts in the chain could cause massive chaos & shortages? This is it. A modest 10% uplift in demand makes it seem like locusts have hit all supermarkets (even though there's no shortage).

So this isn't anti-social idiots stockpiling canned goods: it's every household adding £5 or £6 to its weekly shop. It's happening to a highly-calibrated supply chain that can replenish daily – because there is no shortage – but just can't keep the shelves full during the day.

I'm sure there are some people genuinely hoarding/stockpiling, even hoping to sell-on some goods at a profit, but they aren't the major factor. Don't think most of your fellow citizens are monsters. This is happening in the UK, but not abroad, b/c of supply chain "efficiency".

That won't change, at least not quickly. Supermarket-imposed rationing sensible, but won't actually change much. Need to have (1) priority hours (first thing) for NHS staff (2) reserved stock for elderly; (3) get trucks & migrate people to online shopping (direct from warehouse)

Also important to remember symbiotic relationship with eat-out cafes. Pret a Manger has said it is closing its 400 cafes from this evening. Where are those located? In the city centres where supermarket's food storage capacity (inc refridgerated/frozen storage) is most-limited.

Supermarkets are facing opportunity loss where no stock to sell: if (for example) they were to rent empty Pret storage for middle-of-the-day refreshers of stock in city centre supermarkets & increase small van capacity, they could sell what they already hold in out of town DCs.

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PawFives · 22/03/2020 00:15

Flowers @yoikes
God it’s terrifying isn’t it. Just keep thinking about how much has changed in such a short space of time. Government missed so many opportunities to reduce cases and deaths here and now it’s too late. Was it because they were trying to be clever with going against advice and pushing herd immunity, their libertarian/anti big state leanings or because they worried about what their new Brexit Influenced voters would think? Probably all 3.

SwedishEdith · 22/03/2020 00:17

Sam Freedman
@Samfr
As many new confirmed cases in the US as Italy today (though far fewer deaths). 10k cases now in New York from 45k test. (5k in UK from 70k tests).

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 00:25

Doctors warn coronavirus could overwhelm NHS ‘within weeks’

Exponential growth in action

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/doctors-warn-coronavirus-could-overwhelm-nhs-intensive-care

The numbers of coronavirus patients needing life-or-death care have been doubling every three days,
a report by senior doctors has revealed.

London is worst affected, but the rest of the UK will soon be hit with a similar surge,the document warns.

The audit of intensive care carried out since the epidemic began shows that
patients needing the highest level of help soared from 50 on 9 March to almost 200 on 19 March

– and doctors fear this spike could turn into a nationwide surge within a few weeks.

SwedishEdith · 22/03/2020 00:27

Yes, I've thought some of the panic buying is just people wanting to avoid more shopping. And loads of people being useless cooks so don't know what to buy. If I buy a 2 cans of soup instead of 1, I've doubled my demand. Multiply that be lots of other people. Others are definitely being greedy twats though.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 22/03/2020 00:34

Same 🤷‍♀️ Plus my 2 hungry burly sons are home from uni - where they'd normally live on take aways. Felt really guilty shopping today though.

RedToothBrush · 22/03/2020 00:35

It's interesting as all our local food suppliers and shops have reported sales up. My suspicion is that locally that will change habits in the long run.

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BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 00:49

red The UK imports about half of its food, so I wonder if there are supply problems of some things atm
Some of the extra food being bought atm would need to be replaced by imports and the suppliers won't have planned for this

Also, both in the EU and maybe further afield, what of the effect of COVID on farming / agriculture ?

If tens of thousands of fruit & veg pickers or farmers become ill for a couple of weeks, then supplies of food could be delayed or even drop
That's both within the UK and within those countries that supply the UK.

btw, govt Brexit prepping would have considered shipping, port & road logjams, but not that the amount of food available could actually being lower than usual in the UK or EU

Although EU borders aren't closed to goods, some are closed to people - and people drive goods trucks
Unconfirmed reports are that Germany already has goods trucks queued up for checks at some of its borders, which hasn't happened since before the SM

Merkel says Germany has plenty of food

  • and we do grow a lot, crops starting to come in now
but she hasn't said plenty of food to maintain exports

I can see that supply chains on the continent may be a bit slow and at worst would favour the home or EU market if supplies started to get low.

midwestspring · 22/03/2020 01:09

DH says one of the issues is turn around of demand.
A lot of the stuff being bought isn't usually bought that frequently or in large numbers so restocking it takes longer.
A very small change in buying patterns tips shelves out of stock. Shelves are carefully planned with shopper frequency factored in.
( This is his field hence me giving you his thoughts)

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 01:17

I normally buy local and fresh on principle and for enjoyment
but when prepping in Jan & Feb, I had to go more for longlife & frozen

  • the China data worried me even then, so I stocked 2-3 months of supplies - well before any rush

SInce then, I just continued my normal shopping, until last week when I decided it was time to stay home

Still plenty of online slots for frozen food, available all next week from Tuesday, to my surprise
All the food I want is there
I don't know if that's the case for other online stores here
I've ordered supplies for another 2 weeks

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 01:37

Alex Taylorr@AlexTaylorNews*

Macron was on the point of closing France's border with the UK yesterday if Johnson didn't take stronger measures against Coronavirus

  • article just appeared in tonight's Libération

www.liberation.fr/planete/2020/03/21/coronavirus-les-coulisses-du-bras-de-fer-entre-emmanuel-macron-et-boris-johnson_1782622

FizzyLimes · 22/03/2020 04:43

In France here. Pretty sure Boris will announce lockdown within the next 36 hours. Perhaps Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

Thé UK is keeping pace with Italy; exactly 2 weeks behind
I feel for the Medics. The U.K. doesn’t have the same resources of critical care beds. The death rate is going to explode and may overtake Italy.

Sorry to be so harsh, but it is extremely obvious watching from the outside, hence the daily news reports from ITU in Italy.

FizzyLimes · 22/03/2020 05:03

This website has the best stats
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Someone on FB did a comparison with Italy, here:

Westminstenders: All bets are off