Westministenders: No Australia Don't Have A Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Since Friday, far from letting things calm down, Johnson has doubled down stating that if we can't have a Canada Deal (which the EU says wouldn't be equal because we are much closer than Canada geographically) we will go for an Australia Deal.

This is the latest rehash of a managed no deal package up as something else which the EU have already repeatedly said no to.

So we are on track for no deal.

At the same time Johnson has got very excited about American food and how its great. Almost as if he wants no deal wit the EU to force a shitty bad deal with the us through.

Johnson and his chronies have also been trying to undermine journalistic transparency by blocking access to the lobby to some media outlets in a move that makes us look like a tinpot dictatorship. Fortunately there was a mass walk out of journalists but it remains to be seen how long that can be maintained.

Far from being a clean slate to move forward from its already proving that nothing has changed and old divisions are as deep as ever, if not worse...

I don't mind ads
Other broadcasters produce high quality programs
I watch Sky News online, because I long ago found it better than the Beeb

This is not the 1950s when we had to support the BBC as the only broadcaster
There are hundreds of other choices now

If you want the BBC, then fine
You pay for it

BigChoc
What is the preschool TV output in Germany ?
How many hours a day, without adverts, with education.
look at Horrible Histories
What other countries compete with that ?

The BBCs education remit is what is utterly lacking in the USA outside Sesame Street and Mr Rogers Neighborhood

I wouldn't call sky news high quality.

The BBC's issue has been that since 2010 its been under constant threat from the government and this has influenced its behaviour.

Although it will mean that fewer quality programs will be made. Other broadcasters don't seem to produce the same amount of quality (except for maybe HBO)

The BBC ....
Bitesize
Comedy on radio
Comedy on TV
Satire on radio and TV
History and arts on tv and radio
where is the equivalent of 'womans hour' on commercial radio

seriously folks Big Yellow Taxi time
yup the main BBC news fucked up on Brexit
but is that a good reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater ?

I mind ads a lot. The BBC is high quality, ad free, a precious and much envied resource.
Must everything good be taken from us?

I've always thought the BBC licence fee system unfair, because it is a flat tax

Now more than ever, because of the vast choice in other channels

That's totally separate from Brexit and has been my opinion for over 40 years

That's what growing up poor does for you

• gives perspective on money for essentials like rent & food vs money for more nebulous things

The BBC is not sufficiently essential to be paid by income tax

• I would want any increase to go to the disabled and the NHS, then on modernising infrastructure, but not the bloody TV / radio

"Must everything good be taken from us?"

Like that 150 quid per year, which could have gone on rent or food instead
but was forcibly taken with the threat of fines or imprisonment

the voice of privilege there:
you can pay for your own "good things"

There must be millions of people who would actually pay for subscription BBC
as they do for Netflix etc

If not, it it is such a minority interest .... it doesn't deserve to survive by being forcibly funded by everyone else

Listening I've no idea about kids TV in Germany, never looked for it

Like most, I get my news & current affairs online now, even my newspapers, so I haven't even switched on a TV for 2 years

"like thar 150 quid per year that could have gone on rent or food"

Whilst I agree with you on the flat tax point i disagree here, across a year its minimal working out at 2.90 per week.

The kind of people who are so poor they choose between a tv licence and rent are very rare (and So lthis is a bit of an appeal to emotion.

Just goes to show how Johnson's barring of the Brexit word has worked.

We are now talking about the BBC and other stuff now. Nothing Brexit related anymore. (I do understand that BBC is like NHS, to be sold off though in time)

Brexit isn't mentioned anywhere in the media anymore. Job done.

Conversation with my Brexit voting parents this afternoon:
Me:After DS2 and girlfriend get married they want to move to Finland ( for context, she is Finnish). DS2 wants to study there and if he goes this year won't have to pay fees.
Them: oh that's better than studying in UK
Me: after 3 years he will be able to apply for citizenship and then he will be able to work anywhere in the EU.
Them: How exciting. That will be good for him.
Me: weeps silently and refrains from banging head on wall

BigChoc
Like most, I get my news & current affairs online now, even my newspapers, so I haven't even switched on a TV for 2 years
But then you are utterly missing the point of the BBC

it is about informing and educating the population

Which German TV channels provide early years education in the was CBeebies does
or provide school holiday support and emotional learing in the way CBBC does
or provide extended learning in the way BBC 4 does
or provide support for classical music in the way bbc3 does
or does BBC world service
or the BBC Parliament channel

what are the German equivalents of those (for less than £3 a week)

Germany has a broadcasting charge ("Rundfunkbeitrag"), a flat fee of 17.50 per month per household - irrespective of whether or not the household owns a TV or radio set. This charge funds the public broadcasters.

That's 215 euros a year, currently almost £179, so more than the BBC licence fee.

There are also private broadcasters who show adverts.

Yep, I hate the german system too !
At least the safety net works far better, so far fewer people struggle to pay this, but still unfair.

"The kind of people who are so poor they choose between a tv licence and rent are very rare "

Millions in the UK can't afford 150 quid per year
Millions are struggling from month to month
Have you never heard of foodbanks ?
People waiting for UC to start, or who have had their benefits stopped ?

Basic principle is:
Everyone should have the choice, whether to spend their limited money on what they want,
or to subsidise what the privileged mc want

"it is about informing and educating the population"

I find that horrendously patronising

The public should be able to choose if they want to pay 150 quid annually for a TV & radio broadcaster to "educate" them as their betters think

Or whether they can better use that 150 quid themselves

The BBC seems like a religion to some
To non-believers, it is an outrage we are forced to pay for it, or be fined or jailed.

Especially as so many millions who the BBC fans want to "educate & inform" never watch the BBC, except the occasional game show

It would only work if you made viewing compulsory - of the serious programs - as well as the licence fee

Obviously Brexit is dead now. We have moved on to discuss media issues.

To be fair, Johnson said no more Brexit words, and it has worked really. Nowhere to be seen apart from places like this.

Nobody HAS or NEEDS to pay the licence fee.
The internet is a more useful resource. It includes a lot of TV at no extra cost.
You can also buy DVDs at minimal cost from charity shops, or borrow them. That's what my DCs grew up on.
Without either a TV licence, or DVDs, or the internet, you have a massive choice of radio channels for free.

"have you heard of foodbanks".

Yes and you have to be refferred, only on in 50 households uses one within a year so there are not millions of households using them, somewhere in the region of half a million annually for short periods of time.

Yes people do have difficulties, no waiting for UC to start or having your benefits stopped is not a permanent situation.

Overall the cost of the TV licence is under £3 a week and as the poorest families manage from week to week using the annual figure is disingenuous.

The argument about what the "privileged MC want" is also poor.

I find it incredibly patronising that you make assumptions about what people want from the BBC and that millions of people just watch game shows.

I think there is an excellent case for a public service broadcaster not subject to the commercial demands of subscription services. I do wonder if it requires quite such an extensive service as the BBC currently provides.

I agree, for example the BBC local radio stations positions would mostly be taken by commercial ones.

You can't get much more patronising mc than deciding how the poor should spend some of their money.
It's theirs not yours

I grew up very poor, so it infuriates me when people blithely claim that the poorest can afford 250 quid per year.
Being forced to spend on something you don't need is outrageous

It all adds to the culture war, the anger against the patronising mc forcing things on the rest of the population

BigChoc you should be careful what you wish for.
The US system involves no licence fee.

The only really trustworthy news source, PBS, is a distributor of quality children's programming, good local, national and international journalism, documentaries, the likes of Downton Abbey, cooking and travel shows, and is supported by quarterly pledge drives where appeals are made to the viewing public, among other funding.
All about PBS, including funding:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBS

Meanwhile, cable and broadcast networks provide crappy news/entertainment, sports coverage, and truly horrific children's fare, that generates huge profits.

Don't get rid of the BBC until there is a solid alternative with well thought out funding unless you want nothing but Nickelodeon or the likes of Fox News.