Westministenders: No Australia Don't Have A Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Since Friday, far from letting things calm down, Johnson has doubled down stating that if we can't have a Canada Deal (which the EU says wouldn't be equal because we are much closer than Canada geographically) we will go for an Australia Deal.

This is the latest rehash of a managed no deal package up as something else which the EU have already repeatedly said no to.

So we are on track for no deal.

At the same time Johnson has got very excited about American food and how its great. Almost as if he wants no deal wit the EU to force a shitty bad deal with the us through.

Johnson and his chronies have also been trying to undermine journalistic transparency by blocking access to the lobby to some media outlets in a move that makes us look like a tinpot dictatorship. Fortunately there was a mass walk out of journalists but it remains to be seen how long that can be maintained.

Far from being a clean slate to move forward from its already proving that nothing has changed and old divisions are as deep as ever, if not worse...

Bollocks.

They were crimes against humanity. Shooting civilians and children, the British just can't except that is was that, and want themselves to be exceptional from the law.

John Damjanuj was a 16 /17 year old forced into working in a concentration camp, he was pursued, but British soldiers who shot civilians get immunity ?

Sorry Mockers but saying the only war crimes eminated from the republic referencing Haugheys alleged gun running is just wrong.

If you can see nothing appalling with innocent civilians being hurt that is your call but it seems like you are blinded by a tribal loyalty and your indignation towards the other sides possible wrongdoing is fuelled solely by bias sectarianism.

If it were an innocent member of your family that had been affected, would you be so dismissive of a legal process to get justice for them.....or would you just prefer to have your side of the conflict excused (cos that was not in the peace agreement)

I'm just sorry that people can't read.

No war. No war crimes. A war is what the UN says it is, including a state of hostilities. NI was never anything but a civil insurrection at most, with the complication of cross-border support and operations by criminal gangs, and in the case of Haughy and De Valera etc, by those connected to the Irish state. Which would be a potential act of war, in the same way that Jack Lynch's abortive plan to put troops into the Bogside would have been an act of war.

Crimes against Humanity is a high bar. A single shooting cannot amount to anything of a sort. A deliberate targetting of civillians in a campaign might meet the definition, such as bombing hospitals or deliberately shooting at ambulances, but it is difficult to see any case that could pass the legal tests.

Crimes are crimes. The state undoubtedly broke its own laws left, right and centre, in respect of collusion with loyalist gangs in particular, the degrading and inhuman treatment of detainees (hooding and standing, not the dirty protests which were self-inflicted.)

....In other news, just eight women in cabinet, and five of them reportedly up for the sack.

A war crime is only a term for a case against an individual for criminal activity be that murder, torture or any other crime.
Its the criminal activity that would be prosecuted not whether war was declared.

When Pinochet got arrested for human rights violations in Chile it was because the law accused him of being individually criminally responsible for murder, torture and abduction/disappearance....again war doesn't have to be declared for a crime by an individual to be committed.

Same in the former Yougoslavia, the Serb leaders were found guilty and to be individually criminally responsible for 3 offences: genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the customs of 'war'.

In the case of Thatcher she had a case to answer for the Belgrano even though 'war' hadn't been declared (it was the Falklands conflict) and for the shoot to kill policy in NI that John Stalker and others accused her of.

Just because a govt denies that part of its country is in a civil war doesn't stop it being a civil war.

The Troubles were a civil war within the UK

If the Nazis had just kept within German borders and murdered Jews within German concentration camps, they would still have been guilty of crimes against humanity

Just because a govt actively quashes attempts to bring members of its security forces to justice for murder,
does not mean that the criminals should get away with it after X years.

Other criminals are still brought to justice for historical murders or rapes after several decades

• even if some of the other perpetrators / gang members are dead.

Former security forces should not be treated more leniently than any other criminals re historical crimes

In fact when the UK some years ago refused to investigate rapes that were 30 or 40 years ago, the ECHR ruled against the UK and stated that this was a breach of the human rights of the victims

The IRA committed far more war crimes than the British security services

However, crimes committed by security are a far greater danger to any country, especially a democratic one,
than any committed by terrorists

and especially when the state continually obstructs bringing those murderers or torturers to justice

Techniques used against terrorists don't just disappear when the terrorists do
and there is considerable swap between techniques to handle violent opponents and peaceful dissidents
e.g. psyops developed for the military and now used by far right oligarchs

The 5 torture techniques used on NI detainees were not new - they were originally developed for use on trade union activists if certain cold war contingencies had arisen,
just dusted off for use when the security forces suddenly had hundreds of internees under their control.

In isolation, I'd take the anti-Javid theory without too much trouble.

But added to the governments piss-off-Trump decision over Huawei plus the appointment of a seriously non-lackey US ambassador (suggesting a follow through on the Huawei decision) and a willingness to antagonise "senior Tories" at home, and I do find myself wondering if there is something in the Whitehall water ?

Pauline Bastidonn@BastidonPauline*

Tariffs are only 1 dimension of the costs associated with international trade.

Non-tariff barriers matter & shouldn't be underestimated

• from the cost of completing declarations to additional regulatory costs + adaptation of supply chains to mitigate delays (warehousing...) 1/

And I'm not even talking about training & recruitment costs, cost of stockpiling for multiple deadlines in 2019, consulting costs etc... which are perhaps more temporary.

Also consider potential additional transport costs (drivers waiting time, restrictions making journeys... 2/

...less profitable for operators, etc).
For customs alone, HMRC estimated in October 2019 that the cost of making declarations for UK businesses would be £7.5 billion ......

• hard to reconcile that with £8.3 billion savings figure /3

Even though they are temporary civil servants, are there no rules against bullying for SPADs ?

Iain Martinn@iainmarti*n

In a serious company, or the NHS, or the army, any leader or officer talking to his or her team like this would get the sack.

Harry Colee@MrHarryCole*

Dominic Cummings ended the weekly spad meeting with “I’ll see half of you next week”.
Gone down like cup of cold sick.

I hope that Lindsay Hoyle brings back the Standards board PDQ
he'd get serious kudos from the whole public sector for it

Mockers

...with the complication of cross-border support and operations by criminal gangs, and in the case of Haughy and De Valera etc, by those connected to the Irish state. Which would be a potential act of war, in the same way that Jack Lynch's abortive plan to put troops into the Bogside would have been an act of war.

Irish governments were always entitled to take whatever measures they deemed necessary to safeguard the lives of what were recognised under the GFA as Irish citizens. Any support also had the aim of safeguarding the interests of the Irish state itself, because blowing more cold than hot on the matter of NI would encourage terrorist activity in Ireland as well as NI, and diminish support for the law and the institutions of state in Ireland. Irish governments wanted above all to make sure that a situation like that of the entire island in 1920-22 would not break out again, with sectarian attacks occurring left, right and centre. Previous experience of attempted ethnic cleansing and sectarian violence informed policy discussions.
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/belfast-pogroms-the-street-was-a-mass-of-brain-matter-and-blood-1.4049340

1,500 refugees who arrived in Ireland from NI at the start of the Troubles.

hummedia.manchester.ac.uk/institutes/cresc/workingpapers/wp122.pdf
........
Fyi, Winston Churchill was completely prepared to throw NI to the wolves if necessity dictated.
...in early July 1940, de Valera decided to reject a British offer to approach the Northern Ireland government to join in steps to create a united Ireland in return for Irish entry into the War and/or the location of British troops in Ireland in advance of a German invasion

He settled for very close co-operation with Ireland in counter-espionage efforts instead, for the duration of WWII and beyond.
www.irishtimes.com/news/when-the-spies-are-like-us-1.1109443

This didn't prevent his execrable broadcast insult to the Irish government once the war was over. Weird how hatred of Ireland and all things Irish get in the way of truth sometimes.

You seem to have made the regrettable mistake of swallowing an anti-Irish narrative whole. As early as 1920 de Valera was committed to ensuring that Ireland would not be allowed to threaten Britain's security, and Charlie Haughey for all his bluster was no friend of the Provos.

1,500 refugees who arrived in Ireland from NI at the start of the Troubles.

Meanwhile, Boris and "The Saj" are gearing up to tax the rich "till the pips squeak" ...

Seems that the Labour Party still have no wish to form a government or even an opposition government, but would rather engage in finger pointing at each other.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51432440

Yes, it's a leadership race, but it's disappointing that they don't seem to appreciate either the lesson from the lost election or the lesson to be learned from the Tories in maintaining the appearance of an united front even in the middle of a leadership race. My despair at these internal politics stems from so badly wanting them to become a force in British politics again... and the faint hope that this is not mere wishful thinking.

Blackbird
RLB has the momentum database and she's used it a lot
but she and her cronies do not want to allow the other candidates access to anything similar

amusing that JC's local party have endorsed Keir though

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html

and ...

Gosh DGR the Greeks even loves the aul' EU.

Gosh DGR the Greeks even loves the aul' EU.

Yeah, the FB post I took that from was peppered with quite caustic reminders about how Brexit would galvanise the EUsceptics in other countries and lead to a complete breakup. Apparently.

The biggest threat to Brexit now, is the 95% of it that the UK has no control over (any more) and that's the future direction of the EU. The EU must not be seen to be doing any better than the UK - at least not for the next four years. And if it is seen to be doing better, it must under no circumstances be permitted to suggest that it's because it dumped the losing UK in 2020.

LQ And here I thought that JC/RLB were meant to be principled and have intergrity on their side? 😏

Was that in the Express DGR? This is not the message that the Tories would want to gain traction.

I've got a funny feeling Brexit has had a galvanizing effect on the Irish general election. Not in a nationalistic way, but in a we're not going to be turkeys voting for Christmas kind of way.

Of course if it's a FF/SF coalition I suspect we'll just have lots of turkey feed now with Christmas postponed.

Was that in the Express DGR? This is not the message that the Tories would want to gain traction.

No, it was from the Independent.

We are living in weird, weird times. It's not inconceivable (well it can't be, since I have conceived it) that Boris - and the non-Brexiteer Tories that still exist - might see such stories as a gift with which to keep Brexiteers in check, if anyone can follow me down that twisted logic rabbit hole ?

I have a feeling that we're entering a dead phase now - I can't see team Trump wanting to divert a seconds energy from his re-election campaign to waste time with the UK. Especially as the UK has already made it clear they aren't joining the follow-me dance of Donald. So nothing big will happen till after the election. And then Donald is a lame duck president which might change the game. Plus senate elections.