Westministenders: No Australia Don't Have A Deal

[RedToothBrush]

Since Friday, far from letting things calm down, Johnson has doubled down stating that if we can't have a Canada Deal (which the EU says wouldn't be equal because we are much closer than Canada geographically) we will go for an Australia Deal.

This is the latest rehash of a managed no deal package up as something else which the EU have already repeatedly said no to.

So we are on track for no deal.

At the same time Johnson has got very excited about American food and how its great. Almost as if he wants no deal wit the EU to force a shitty bad deal with the us through.

Johnson and his chronies have also been trying to undermine journalistic transparency by blocking access to the lobby to some media outlets in a move that makes us look like a tinpot dictatorship. Fortunately there was a mass walk out of journalists but it remains to be seen how long that can be maintained.

Far from being a clean slate to move forward from its already proving that nothing has changed and old divisions are as deep as ever, if not worse...

The links between State and the FCO are close and enduring, as are the many other tie-ups between defence and security agencies.

This is why Trump can huff and puff all he likes about Huawei. The US depends on the UK to host some its most vital security infrastructure which we provide gratis and which we can shut down with the flick of a switch.

Goodnight Fylingdales. Goodnight Chicksands. Goodnight Diego Garcia. Etc.

I have no expectation that my condemnation of Sinn Fein / IRA or neo-Nazis / far right will stop anyone voting for them.

However, I also refuse to accept that my condemnation and contempt for such voters is in anyway to blame for their decision on how to vote
I refuse to keep quiet about their terrible choices, just for fear of sharing blame for them.

They are 100% responsible for their decision and its consequences
Hurt feelings at being called Nazi scum or terrorist scum does not excuse voting for other Nazi or terrorist scum

The UK depends on the US for more than the other way round
Especially after Brexit when the Uk has lost a substantial amount of its soft power and is desperate for trade.

Also, if the Uk tried "flicking a switch" to actually take away an important existing facility from the USA,
then I would expect similar consequences and US pressure to what happened in the Suez crisis

• and very probably such action to bring the UK to its knees would have bipartisan support in the US Congress

It would be far more serious than not giving in to Trump about something new

Also, if the Uk tried "flicking a switch" to actually take away an important existing facility from the USA,

We may have to return Diego Garcia anyway? US would then presumably negotiate a lease with the islanders - win/win for them.

Apart from military (missiles, aircraft, helicopters) I thought our dependence on the US was relatively balanced - though they would presumably pressure the Israelis to block our Intel access - but arguably distancing ourself from the US in the middle East makes us more safe.

My thoughts about the new Ambassador too, DGR - a woman, an absolute No-No for Trump, even though she appears from what I read to be very competent.

Which suggests she has been appointed on the UKs terms, not the USs ?

Or that there is someone behind Trump in the Whitehouse that the UK is really dealing with. Y'know, that shadowy cabal maybe ?

The US depends on the UK to host some its most vital security infrastructure which we provide gratis and which we can shut down with the flick of a switch.

It's astonishing how few Americans know this - or the reasons for it ...

Did anyone see the programme where Mark Thomas flew a balloon over Menwith Hill

From FB:

Woke up with a wild idea racing through my mind: why don't we join the EU?!

Maybe it's nuts, maybe it's a lightbulb moment. Might at least be worth considering.

After all, as EU members, we could expect to enjoy...

1. Unfettered access to the largest trade block in the world

1. Free trade deals with countries around the world, including Japan, Canada and South Korea
2. Just-in-time manufacturing, the kind that supports millions of jobs in our automotive, aerospace and other sectors

1. Wide-open border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, with no customs or other checks between NI and the rest of the UK
2. Support for the Good Friday Agreement & active promotion of the Irish peace process, including PEACE funding (over EUR 1.5 billion between 1995 and 2020)

1. The freedom for UK citizens to travel, work, study and retire anywhere in the EU without needing visas
2. Scientific and academic collaboration
3. Shared space exploration
4. Participation in the Galileo GPS satellite cluster

10. Driving licenses valid all over the EU

11. Car insurance valid all over the EU

12. Pet passports that make travel with pets easy

13. Simplified fixed compensation scheme for flight delays & cancellations thanks to EU Air Passenger Rights.

14. European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)

15. Mobile roaming (calls, texts and data) at home prices

16. Portable streaming services (can watch Netflix etc. all over the EU)

17. Erasmus student exchange programme

18. Simplified VAT reverse charge mechanism for those selling across the EU

19. Safer food

20. Clean beaches

21. Enhanced consumer protection, including for cross-border shopping

22. Horizon 2020 (funding and assistance for over 10,000 collaborative research projects in the UK as part of the world's largest multinational research programme.)

23. Training courses for the unemployed funded by the European Social Fund

24. Disaster relief funding e.g. the 60 million euro we received for flood relief in 2017

25. Free movement for musicians and their instruments, bands and their equipment, artists and their materials etc.

26. Enhanced environmental protections

27. Court of last resort (ECJ)

28. REACH regulations & EU Chemicals Agency, improving human, animal & environmental safety around chemicals

29. Safer medicines thanks to pan-EU testing regime

30. Security cooperation and sharing of crime/terrorist databases

31. Participation in the European arrest warrant programme

32. EURATOM for medical isotopes

33. Support for rural areas ignored by successive UK Governments

34. Better food labelling

35. EU funding for the British film industry, theatre and music

36. European Capital of Culture programme, which has boosted cities such as Glasgow and Liverpool

37. Service providers (e.g. freelance translators) can offer their services to clients all over the EU

38. No UK VAT or duty on imports from the EU (great for online shopping

39. EU citizenship (it's a real thing with real benefits - look it up!)

40. Cross-border collaboration on taxes, to hold huge firms like Amazon and Facebook to account more than we otherwise could

41. Venture capital funding and startup loans

42. Legal protection for minority languages such as Welsh

43. Mutual recognition of academic qualifications

44. Legal protection for foods of geographic origin, e.g. Melton Mowbray pork pies

45. No credit and debit card surcharges

46. EU structural funding (eg. £2 billion to Liverpool) with matched private funding requirement

47. Supporting and encouraging democracy in post-communist countries

48. A bigger, stronger presence on the world stage

49. Use of EU queues at ports and airports

50. Products made or grown in the UK can be sold in 31 countries without type approval, customs duties, phytosanitary certificates etc.

51. Protection from GM food and chlorinated chicken

52. Objective 1 funding for deprived areas and regions

53. Financial services passport, enabling firms in the City to service the whole EU market

54. Strong intellectual property protections

55. University education in other EU countries at "home student" rates (many still have free universities.)

56. Mutual recognition of professional qualifications

57. Consular protection from any EU embassy outside the EU

58. Baseline of worker protections (which we can also improve on, of course)

59. The right to land fish in the EU (we send the EU half of all the fish we catch)

60. Enhanced medical research prospects

61. A friend to cosy up to against the might of the USA and China

62. Seasonal workforce to pick our fruit and vegetables

63. A vital source of medicines (we import 37 million packs a month from the EU)

64. Minimum 2 year guarantee on all products

65. Protection against unfair treatment in the workplace thanks to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights

66. Minimum of 4 weeks paid leave (introduced by EU in 1993, taken up by the UK in 1998 and later extended to 28 days in 2009)

67. More influence on environmental measures that transcend borders (we get to help shape the policies that 28 countries must follow)

68. A say in the running of the EU (now we're outside, the rest of the EU carries on but we have zero influence over its policies)

69. Cleaner air thanks to the EU Air Quality Directive

70. Legally enforced 14 day cooling off period on timeshare agreements

71. Some of the highest toy safety standards in the world

72. Protection of 500 bird species under legislation dating back to 1979, and amended in 2009

Let's face it, the EU is always going to be there on our doorstep. Literally, in the case of Northern Ireland. And the continental EU is only 30 miles away across that "all important" Dover-Calais crossing. So we can't just ignore them.

But when you dig into the long list I posted above, there's a sense that it should be frightfully expensive, surely?

A quick back of the envelope calculation suggests that it would actually cost us less than 40p per person per day.

(And that calculation is without considering all the secondary value we receive from EU membership. For example, the boost it gives to our manufacturing industry. How do you measure the value of millions of jobs? You certainly shouldn't count it as zero, that's for sure!)

There's a lot to unpick here, I know. So it's not something to rush into by teatime. But it must be worth considering? Why not bookmark this thread for reference, and show it to your friends?

Whose FB page was that on DGR?

I suspect there will be more moderate Leavers who would quite happily buy into that list, especially if Johnson isn't able to spread the largesse around.

For example, at least one Leaver was jumping up and down in excitement about the £500 million to reverse Beeching cuts. Two local projects are both putting in for £200 million. This does suggest that the £5 million will not go very far.

Whose FB page was that on DGR?

It was Jack Dart, picked up by Scientists for EU ...

Well out of that 72 there are a couple I'm not quite so keen on.

But 70/72 reasons is pretty good going, and sufficient reasons to join, I reckon. Who do we speak to to apply?

Well out of that 72 there are a couple I'm not quite so keen on. [] But 70/72 reasons is pretty good going, and sufficient reasons to join, I reckon.

And yet that exact same logic fucked off when it came to voting Labour.

And yet that exact same logic fucked off when it came to voting Labour.
No
because with voting Labour there was a sodding great
reason ZERO that made the others irrelevant : Jeremy Corbyn

I notice that R L-B is still carrying on the scattergun add more policies as news stories happen to her leadership campaign
(Labour councillors, work emails, you name it)
She might think it makes her look reactive
IMHO it makes her look like she has no real ideas at all
she would be as disastrous a leader of the opposition as JC is being.

Meanwhile, it seems the US has suddenly embraced socialism - I know, who'd have thought it ?

www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/07/us_attorneygeneral_urges_us_to_buy_stake_in_ericsson_and_nokia/

Unless the state owning huge chunks of infrastructure isn't socialist anymore ?

Makes Corbyns free broadband pledge look a bit ... well weedy, really. He should have aimed big.

More taking back control. The US tells the UK it needs to fly it's planes moreP:

www.theregister.co.uk/2020/02/07/f35_dote_fy2019_report/

British F-35Bs deploying to the South China Sea next year may not meet key reliability metrics set by an American government watchdog, its annual report has revealed.

The US Department of Defense's Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOTE) warned that the multinational F-35B fighter jet fleet is lagging behind a key flight-hours metric needed to show maintenance maturity.

(contd)

Whilst we should remember what the IRA did and those that were directly affected be properly compensated, we must also remember that Thatcher had a dirty war of her own, 'shoot to kill' being a war crime in itself.
The collusion of security services with authorisation from the top of Thatchers government should mean that people should never again vote Tory....but they do and seemingly without care for their previous sins.
I found the below revelation of a plan to shoot up a school more disgusting than anything the IRA ever considered.
Tory government attroctities = justifiable, IRA attrocties = bad..... er ok
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/british-intelligence-tried-to-get-uvf-to-shoot-up-a-school-documentary-claims-1.3800302?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

There were no war crimes in the toubles because there was no war. PIRA and their mates never amounted to a legitimate force. They did not wear a uniform on operations and never observed one single line of the Geneva Convention or the historic laws of warfare. They were always criminals without a vestigial shred of legitimacy.

Whether or not UK security forces, military and police, committed any criminal offences under the law of the land is a different question with no simple answer.

Whilst we should remember what the IRA did and those that were directly affected be properly compensated, we must also remember that Thatcher had a dirty war of her own, 'shoot to kill' being a war crime in itself.

As I get older, I have less time or stomach for the tendency of all governments to try and act like Bunco Booth scamsters of old: heads they win/tails you lose.

They didn't want to call it a war against the IRA, insisting they were common criminals. Yet at the same time they turned Northern Ireland into a war zone. Even now, we aren't "at war" with ISIS or whatever they are called this week. So for the IRA you removed the political dimension from their actions, whereas with ISIS you add a political dimension to their actions.

Oh look - a squirrel.

It was not a war. Yellow Card Rules were nothing like operational rules of engagement. In thirty years, no one on the Government side ever fired anything heavier calibre than 7.62mm. The leading Provos were claiming dole for most of that time, an unconventional approach to hostilities.

Whether or not UK security forces, military and police, committed any criminal offences under the law of the land is a different question with no simple answer.

How convenient...

The IRA were murderous gangsters.
Their successors are still gangsters.

One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

If Sinn Fein get near power in the south, the onus will be on them to disown all of the gangsters who operate in their name

Life has to move on
otherwise it becomes like Albanian blood feuds

Not convenient at all. The complexity is what makes it so difficult. Everyone involved in the Widgery Commission from the PM down was engaged in a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

The pity is the continued determination of the Republicans to go after individual squaddies rather than take it higher.

There were no war crimes during the troubles hmmm....
Thatcher herself changed her public speaking arrangements to UK friendly countries as she had been warned that post the arrest of Pinochet she had a risk of trial for 'shoot to kill' and the Belgrano
She had a case to answer, make no mistake.
And then we let the DUP into a coalition government (of sorts) after 3 of theIr Mps had known ties to the UVF.
Who was it that said every Catholic (ahem civilians) in NI should expelled, interned or neutralized.....nice
.....imagine if Corbyn had gone into coalition with the provos

I am not fully conversant with NI and the ins and outs but it does seem that we need to remember the spirit in which the Good Friday Agreement was forged. This was a huge achievement, which I never thought possible.

Well said Peregrina

Hear Hear Peregrina
The GFA came into force over 20 years ago

if we are going to keep raking it up as a reason to deny the population of Ireland their democratic choice
WE are in the wrong