Westminstenders: The Final Week

[RedToothBrush]

Our final week in the EU...

David Henig @davidheniguk
Seeing suggestions that Ministers are struggling to find coherent trade policies in tariff or regulations remind me of my first @ecipe paper 2 years ago on why trade policy was difficult, and how to prepare for this
ecipe.org/publications/assessing-uk-trade-policy-readiness/

Needless to say government has at no point wanted to hear that trade policy was difficult, and preferred to hear from those selling the glories of easy deals making everyone happy. Now for the messy and complex realities that all countries face - how well will we do?

Gavin Rummery @rummery
The scary bit is neither Johnson or Cummings really care about Brexit - it was just a means to an end. In fact Cummings appears to think that now is the perfect time to massively restructure the Whitehall - they're not going to be busy after all.

After 31st January is the bit when we all get to go 'told you so'...

Mujtaba Rahman @mij_europe
Think it's important we stop talking about frictionless trade - and whether Govt wants to maintain it or not. That debate well & truly over - unless BJ extends transition (unlikely). Rather question for Govt is: just how inferior are things going to get? And for which sectors?

Tom Tugendhat @tomtugendhat
The challenge of the Huawei decision is not just today, but what it says about the values we will defend in years to come. Get it right - we're an independent trading nation upholding the rules. Get it wrong - we've taken back control from Brussels only to hand it to Beijing.

The problem of all our new trade deals in a nutshell. Its not just the EU, its China and its the US...

2021 is when we could say "I told you so" - but we should rise above that

The Leavers / Tory gloating has been unpleasant - and has not converted a single one of us here, just stiffened resistance

Also, being right when a lot of other people are wrong does not get you rewarded;
it often gets you the blame

Disloyal Cooty Theory of Brexit
= our disloyal Remainer cooties got on their shiny Brexit unicorn and gave it the galloping never getovers.

"We've taken back control from Brussels only to hand it to Beijing"

And Mumbai, Seoul
and Trump's USA
and maybe Brussels more than ever - but now without a vote or seat at the table

Brexit was always a dog chasing a motorbike: Fun to chase it, but what you gonna do when you catch it? Can't ride it. Can't eat it. And unlike the dog and the motorbike, can't pee on it and walk away.

This picture just popped up on my FB feed.
Regardless of the caption, I wonder which circle on the Venn Diagram we will end up in ....

End of an era. Marking place to catch up later. In some ways, I thought it would keep on being kicked down the road and wouldn't end up happening.

Thank you, thank you, Westminstenders for all these years and years of research and debate.
I've followed every thread.
Never posted, prob never will again.
But now I just wondered though, have any of you printed off, or otherwise saved these threads to keep them safe, now we are hurtling towards 31st Jan, and not allowed to mention the B word ever again, in case we end up in The Tower?
(I can't do it myself for various reasons, much though I'd like a hard copy)
RedToothBrush deserves proper respect for these threads, they are the best and most thoughtful political comments around, I think.
Please keep going.

As an archivist advising historians I completely agree. These threads on Brexit on both sides would be of huge value for future analysis. In general, I wonder if Mumsnet has considered this?

Going back to pre-decimalization might be a step too far.

The only way to slay Brexit is to trick Brexiteers into impaling themselves on their own spikes. They are the ones that ramped up the rhetoric with lies. So take those lies and run with them. I want to hear a Brexiteer telling me not to be ridiculous in calling for a return to Lsd. After all, decimalisation was an EEC plot forced onto Britain, right ? Of course it was.

2021 is when we could say "I told you so" - but we should rise above that

I will of course, but it will still be somewhat cathartic to see the shit hitting the fan when reality bites on what trade deals actually mean in practice and not in the realm of fantasy. There isn't any other way to deal with it when you are a passenger to the car crash but to find a tiny bit of personal justification in it all.

FWIW I will keep these threads going indefinitely in some form or another although I think they will slow down substantially as there isn't the same parliamentary drama and media coverage of the subject any more.

Brexit doesn't end next week. It is the gift that keeps giving indefinitely and that's part of its 'joy'.

Red
IMHO these threads will have a valid purpose until the trade deal with the EU is complete and those with other countries are resolved
so that the UK knows where it is in the world
as a result of the Brexit vote.

Some of you may not have been on these threads on the numerous occasions when I described how I made my Y8s cry when I gave them “Scrooge’s Xmas Sums” in pounds, shillings and pence and Imperial measures - as a fun Xmas lesson.
Oddly enough my worry beforehand was that they wouldn’t be familiar with the story, but they had seen the Muppets version.
I look forward to the whole country in tears.

I do remember your Scrooge's Xmas Sums. For people who like to boast that they are no good at maths, well, they would have a treat in store.

DH is basically a Lexiter (even though he says he voted Remain) and offers the opinion that the Tories might be doing the right thing for the wrong reason. The Tories major problem, as I see it now, is that they are not doing anything to implement a Brexit at all, never mind one which could benefit the whole country. (Not that such a thing exists.)

I personally wouldn't care if the Tories sorted out the housing market or transport by stealing Labour policies - what would matter was that most people benefited.

An amusing analysis of where we are
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51255530

A depressing analysis of the way evidence is used in policy making
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/26/priti-patel-radicalised-youth-plan-so-flawed-its-mad

A depressing analysis of the way evidence is used in policy making

"Evidence" is only ever used in policy making when it supports the policies people want to enforce. Otherwise, what's the point of it ?

The trick is to decide the policy, then look at what "evidence" supports that policy and work from there. No UK government in the history of ever has ever once started a process of change without knowing what it would lead to.

The war on drugs is probably the poster child for non-evidence based policies that have had their fig leaf of justification repeatedly pulled off to show the biggest load of bollocks this side of the Atlantic.

Obviously bedroom tax, and PIP are in the mix too. But more people seemed to wise up to them.

I see Brexit as an excuse to extend austerity in order to achieve prosperity. Go figure.

Apparently, I gather, going forward we’re all to “Accept Brexit” by some unknown means (I think it’s basically STFU but without actually admitting that’s what is meant), “Make the Best of It” by some entirely undefined means (but possibly involving positive emoting), and “Pull Together” by some indescribable means (sorry, can’t even guess at this one). And not doing any of the above, despite the compete lack of definition, is Very Bad and Divisive and Being An Echo Chamber. And BullyingPunishment of Life’s Winners.

Seems awfully quiet about Brexit in the media, mind you haven't had chance to sit down and read them yet !

The first drop in standards, as foretold by many, maybe? www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-us-uk-trade-deal-chlorinated-chicken-woody-johnson-food-safety-a9302506.html

@frumpety I think there's something about 50p coins...that's it

Frumpety
There is LOTS about Brexit in the news
BUT
if you get you news from an app or a feed that uses "most read" you'll not see it.

I check 4 news sites (BBC, Graun, Sky, my local) every day and use google news to give an overview, scroll till I see a Brexit story, click "full coverage" and there it all is

Social Media news is rubbish at covering stuff like political analysis and world economics - which is a shame as that is where the real stories are

Loving the AIBU thread that seems to think that the Brexit issues are fresh

Whenever I see the phrases pull together and get behind it I imagine just sitting where I am and pulling a face like I’m really straining, like when you’re having a bad time having a poo.

Which is understandable as there are some similarities