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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Final Week

963 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/01/2020 20:41

Our final week in the EU...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
51
DGRossetti · 30/01/2020 18:50

Fun game, for all the family. Would Pliny the Elder have been a Breixteer or a Remainer ? After Nicky Morgan is compared to him (no, really).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51279876

On a related and just as facile note, were there any leading classicists that were Brexiteers that might argue for Pliny being one. We can obviously discount Boris since he's not a Brexiteer.

thecatfromjapan · 30/01/2020 18:53
Thanks
BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2020 19:01

Bat is £1 more and total is £1.10
Hence £1.10 = £1 + 2B
==> B= £0.05

cologne4711 · 30/01/2020 19:19

I had to Google the bat and ball question, but I'm still struggling to get my head round the answer

I figured that it was a trick question of sorts, and sat on the loo trying to work it out. I could see that the £1.05 and 5p was right, but couldn't work out for a minute or so why £1 and 10p was wrong. Then it dawned on me. Someone said it was mental arithmetic - the website I googled said you could use algebra to solve it.

Peregrina · 30/01/2020 19:26

You can use algebra, but you can do it by trial and error. It is a bit of a trick because the 'more' gets missed, so you think you have been told that the bat costs £1.00.

GeistohneGrenzen · 30/01/2020 19:32

O gosh (said in true Joyce Grenfell style) I used to be good at mental arithmetic and loved algebra. Still trying to get my head around it. Still I can think of worse things to have nightmares about... tomorrow I shall find a nice sandpit to stick my head in until Saturday. After I've sent friends and family emails with the EU flag and url to the Sabadell flashmob of course...

borntobequiet · 30/01/2020 19:36

I will be in Portugal tomorrow night when we leave. DD only noticed this a few days ago and asked if it was deliberate. Answer “Yes”.

Mockers2020Vision · 30/01/2020 19:38

Shall we do the one about going to St Ives* and meeting all the kids and cats and kits?

(*Cambs or Kernow?)

ListeningQuietly · 30/01/2020 19:40

I was in the land of Chope earlier this week.
very interesting.
Demographically its the oldest district in the UK
it voted massively for Brexit
it voted massively for that nice Mr Chope
and now its utterly struggling to find people to work in the care homes and cafes and shops and schools
apparently the residents want more "arrivals" but not of the forrin variety

timetobackout · 30/01/2020 19:44

DG Why was someone in the Republic taught in Gaelic?

DGRossetti · 30/01/2020 20:57

DG Why was someone in the Republic taught in Gaelic?

Shrug

I don't know. Just a story I was told by an Irishman in the 80s ...

Coppersulphate · 30/01/2020 21:11

I was brought up in Donegal and my brother was taught Gaelic in school. My cousins in Dublin had all of their lessons in Gaelic. And they are in their 30's and 40's.
It is like Wales where schools are either Gaelic or English. At least it was 20 years ago

midwestfornow · 30/01/2020 21:40

Is there some Scots/Irish confusion going on with the Gaelic conversation?
Same name but considered different enough to be two different languages?

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2020 21:40

Eyes on this. I've seen this floating around with a few journalists and tweeters (who have been close to the mark before) in the last day or so.

Nick Gutteridge @nick_gutteridge
1/ Michel Barnier took the unusual step of recommending a legal basis for the future UK-EU partnership before talks have even begun at a meeting of ambassadors yesterday - he proposed Article 217, an Association Agreement. This matters for a few reasons
www.thesun.co.uk/news/10854190/eu-blow-to-quick-brexit-deal-with-brussels-plan-to-force-sign-off-by-all-27-parliaments/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
EU blow to quick Brexit deal with Brussels plan to force sign-off by ALL 27 parliaments

2/ First of all, it gives us further insight into how the EU is going to approach the negotiations and what its priorities will be. An Association Agreement means the entire relationship will be encompassed by one governance structure and set of Level Playing Field conditions.

3/ This precludes the idea of a Swiss-style relationship, in which the UK and EU could've struck a quick FTA on goods during the transition period with its own distinct provisions in these areas, and then separately approached sectors like security, transport etc afterwards.

4/ Ordinarily the Commission doesn't propose a legal basis for an agreement with a 3rd country until it's clear where it's going in terms of the scope of the relationship. The fact the EU is moving early here shows both its level of preparedness and concern about these talks.

5/ It has the effect of thrusting the 'architecture' of the relationship to the forefront. The EU wants to build a big house which may be sparsely furnished at first, with perhaps just a goods agreement, but which over time can be added to with 'state of the art' sectoral deals.

6/ From the EU perspective getting the structure sorted early provides a solid foundation of trust on which to build a close relationship. It prevents lots of parallel sector-by-sector negotiations and give solid guarantees about how dispute settlement will work across the board.

7/ Article 217 also requires unanimity of EU27 governments and EU Parliament backing, which gives Member States/MEPs reassurance about their level on involvement. But the question of whether the final deal will be mixed, and so require EU27 parliament ratification, remains open.

8/ But the UK may be wary of an Association Agreement. It requires Britain to sign up to governance measures - including possible ECJ involvement - and a Level Playing Field right at the start. Some pretty important things will have to be agreed long before everything is agreed.

9/ The negotiations themselves will be structured in a 3-week rolling cycle - preparation week, talks week, debrief week, reset. As the Dec 31 deadline looms this may become compressed, but the structure will remain intact. It's similar to the structure of the Withdrawal talks.

10/ The Commission is proposing an ambitious approach to getting as much done as possible with 12 separate strands - covering areas like goods, services, security, defence, fisheries etc - set to be tackled in parallel, albeit with a more intense focus on the key areas for now.

11/ EU diplomats are adamant that they have heard Britain's message about divergence loud and clear and this approach is 'not about keeping the UK hostage' to Brussels rules. 'The EU has completely accepted the UK is leaving and will have regulatory autonomy and diverge.'

12/ But they see the only way to make sure the deal 'doesn’t crash on impact' is a system of 'credible governance and common rules' to foster trust. The EU knows it'll have a big political battle on its hands with the UK but thinks it's ultimately in both sides' interests. ENDS.

Steve Peers @stevepeers
Interesting on the EU negotiation position, but note association agreements:
- differ in their content
- don't usually provide for CJEU jurisdiction binding the non-EU country
- don't always cover the whole relationship with that non-EU country

For those Brexiters angry at the notion of an association agreement with the EU, note that the "European free trade zone" which Vote Leave campaigned for is, for the non-EU countries involved, based largely on...association agreements

Westminstenders: The Final Week
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timetobackout · 30/01/2020 21:46

They speak Irish in Ireland, Gaelic in Scotland, not a difficult concept.

mathanxiety · 30/01/2020 21:49

There are a lot of Gaeilscoileanna in Dublin and elsewhere in Ireland. Two of Ireland's best secondary schools are Gaeilscoileanna. Children can go through their entire primary and secondary cycles in Irish-speaking schools. Irish is taught (very badly for the most part) in all schools in Ireland beginning with Junior Infants (roughly equivalent to Reception). It's a required subject (minimum grade D at ordinary level) for university entrance except for Trinity College Dublin.

There are probably more people who use Irish as their first language in Dublin than in Gaeltacht areas (heritage Irish speaking areas), though Irish was bumped to third most spoken language after English and Polish in Ireland according to the census of 2011.

midwestfornow · 30/01/2020 21:53

@timetobackout
A quick google search shows that it is a commonly discussed issue as the screenshot below highlights

Westminstenders: The Final Week
mathanxiety · 30/01/2020 21:53

YY, it's Gaeilge (pr gayl-geh) for Ireland and Gàidhlig (pr gah-likh [roughly]) in Scotland.

Gaelic is an English word.

mathanxiety · 30/01/2020 21:53

Gaeilge is aka Irish.

midwestfornow · 30/01/2020 21:56

The Scots and the Irish may be clear on the differences but I can see how the English could get confused. ( particularly following on from the earlier conversation about lack of language training in the UK.)

yolofish · 30/01/2020 22:03

Well I'm still confuzzled about the maths question...

RedToothBrush · 30/01/2020 22:18

The ‘anti-woke’ backlash is no joke – and progressives are going to lose if they don’t wise up.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/30/anti-woke-backlash-liberalism-laurence-fox

Guardian article talking about something RTB mentioned forever ago. Social conservatism, anti-woke and identity politics.

Just to clarify on this there's a few things going on with this.

First of all you have a full on 'alt-right' group who are simply racist, sexist etc etc.

Then you have a 'traditionalist' grouping which are what I'd call more 'social conservatives'. Think types who think traditional family unit is the ideal and look towards much more localism and historic ties to places. They aren't 'anti' anything particularly. More that they believe in a certain way of life and fear its being eroded for whatever reason.

Then you have the social liberals who think social liberalism has just completely lost the plot and is out of control because its no longer liberal in essence and instead is trying to ram certain ideas down other people's throats by authoritarian measures. The political purity that spiralled and lost sight of its original purpose.

It's important to see the three camps as separate and distinct. I'm not sure the article linked to really does that justice. The 'anti-woke' umbrella label is about the culture war and trying to almost be part of the problem that the journalist in question was trying to highlight. Rather than 'warning progressives' it's still doing the same divisive action by creating a 'them and us' idea rather than properly exploring what's going on, why and whether it's 'a bit more complicated that' in nature.

It's still lazy journalism. It's obviously someone parroting the concept of an 'anti-woke' momentum / social conservatism but without fully understanding it.

If they fully understood it, they'd be able to explain what's going on better and how it's not a singular force but a combination of problems that aren't being fully identified by politicians on the left and centre (including the centre right)

It's been something that's happening for some considerable time. The warnings about this movement aren't new. And every journalist worth their salt should understand how the culture war works and to try not to feed it because it undermines the very principles of their profession. Yet most are either blind to it, or fully paid up disciples of it. Not sure which that journo is.

I also don't fully get why Laurence Fox has suddenly got everyone's knickers in a twist tbh. He's not the first figure to come out with these views. He's just someone in a certain profession which is thought of as having certain set values and beliefs expressing different views. The shock and horror of it is coming from same people who are still in denial about the concept of a 'liberal elite' world view.

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/01/2020 23:57

red I was wondering whether the EU would go for a quicker type of trade agreement that required only QMV

If Barnier / the Commision's proposal to use A217 is approved, this further reduces the time for negotiation, which are only planned to start on 3 March

It is understandable though, as the EU have always said they would never again go through the highly complex system of bilateral deals that Switzerland has,
which require continual updates and are manpower-intensive

Also imo, Barnier doesn't trust BJ - he's not daft ! - and wants a clear legal framework that will be easier to enforce.
BJ appearing to either not understand the NI terms in the WA, or hinting he won't apply them fully, is likely to have increased the mistrust

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 00:00

Also have to remember that the trade talks are not the most urgent priority for the EU, as they are for the UK.
BJ chose another ticking clock with only 11 months, in practice now about 8 months for negotiations
The EU can afford to wait and apply pressure in 2021 if need be

Mujtaba Rahman@Mij_Europe

After spending week in Bxl, 2 imp observations.

1/ EU priorities in 1st half of year decisively not UK-EU trade talks

  • EU budget, climate, digitization, US/China/WTO trade tensions.

2/ Price EU will seek for a zero/zero deal far from settled.
Could go well beyond LPF & fish

Motheroffourdragons · 31/01/2020 00:26

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