Westminstenders: The Final Week

[RedToothBrush]

Our final week in the EU...

BigChocFrenzy - you missed the compulsory descriptor for my favourite but now ex MEP : the lovely Alyn Smith

Apposite to what you were posting about, here is the front cover of tomorrow's The National

(Thank you BCF. And prettybird)

On the topic of studying abroad - My DCs attended US universities and did the semester abroad thing. Their universities had links with approved universities (or their own small colleges) all over the world.

One DC went to Paris, had no problems with a visa and none on arrival in Paris either. Used her Irish passport to open a bank account for herself, which she closed out when she was biffing Paris adieu. One DC went to London - had visa delays, an incredible amount of paperwork/proof of income to supply to some bureau that clearly had no idea how American university students finance their education, and a very jarring encounter with a hostile customs and immigration official on arrival. The suspicion of a student coming from a prestigious US university was bizarre.

Champagne, eh, MysteryTripAgain.

Tut tut.

www.pprune.org/rumours-news/629251-gibraltar-spain-gamesmanship.html

Anyone think this will improve on 1st Feb?

Erm.... facial recognition to stop the next Tiananmen Square Massacre.
Don't think that's what you mean - I assume you suggest it's use to suppress dissent - technology often has good and bad uses.

I agree it's problematic - as is the labelling of XR as terrorists and the met's introduction of facial recognition. Equally the stacking of the US courts with the right wing and the push to overturn roe v wade. The right wing control of our media, the 1% that own virtually everything.

The west has problems that seem to be getting worse and its not clear that 'democracy' will prevail. I think China ascending to be on a par with the US can only be a good thing - imho trade interdependence is the best guarantee of peace and progress.

This is from the comments about the Gibraltar link above for those who haven't read it:
Gibraltar could be one of the first casualties of Brexit.

For a place which voted 96% to stay in the EU and isn't part of the UK - having the 'will of the English people thrust down their throats must be particularly galling.

Dissatisfaction with democracy 'at record high'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51281722

Representative democracy under the influence of advertising industry techniques has degenerated into majoritarianism. The countries where satisfation remains high; Denmark, Switzerland, Norway and the Netherlands, are those where power-sharing is strong and effective.

PMK

@RedToothBrush, thanks for keeping those threads going. They have been a lifeline for me since the referendum (I’ve been here under many many names) and I hope they will continue.
This brexit thing isn’t finished. I suspect we have at least a couple of years of mess in front of us still :(

Brexit will last many years and its effects will last decades,
unless we eventually end up with a Norway++ type BRINO deal (maybe the economy will have to crash first)

Trade deals normally take 5-15 years to negotiate and approve
(unless one side just caves in and signs up to everything the other wants - which is the standard USA process for granting trade deals)

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brexit-celebrations-going-to-be-a-little-bit-racist-admit-brexiters-20200129192936

(Just Bantz, m'kay).

@Mockers2020Vision this is interesting too:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/28/fact-from-fiction-finlands-new-lessons-in-combating-fake-news

Representative democracy under the influence of advertising industry techniques has degenerated into majoritarianism

Aka dictatorship. Dictators can and often do have majority support, at least to start with. What makes them dictators is repression of dissent. I wish that message got through...

What makes them dictators is repression of dissent.

Invariably cheerled by words such as "decency" and "think of the children" as the reasons we need censorship.

So depressed about Erasmus. DD is talking about doing modern languages as a degree. I can see her having to spend her year abroad as an aupair, probably expected to speak English to the whole family

When I did my Erasmus year there were loads of students from outside what was then the EC at my host university. It won't be a problem. There will also be the possibilities of work placements or being a language assistant in a school. I am hoping that EEA countries see the value in being open to young British citizens. EEA countries decide their own policy towards non-EEA citizens, so it's really up to them whether they decide to close the doors or not.

Being a language assistant in a school is no longer as easy as it was back when I did it in the mid 1990s.
Those are reciprocal agreements as well and since the UK has slashed MFL teaching in secondary schools and therefore takes far fewer language assistants, places for them in other countries have fallen, too.
DS1 had an English assistant for a couple of years at French primary.
None at secondary.
DS2 has had one, once, in 5 years of primary school.

It is true, my school had both French and German assistants but ds' school didn't have any. He's now at sixth form college and has a native Spanish speaker as his Spanish teacher but she's the only one. I think all the MFL teachers are native speakers so I suppose in some ways that obviates the need for a native speaker language assistant although having someone only a few years older brings a different dimension.

If it really becomes a problem I suppose they might change the structure of language degrees so that you do 3 years with 3 month language courses between years 1 and 2 and then between 2 and 3. It won't at all be the same though :(

But as I say, "keeping the light on" would be evidenced by allowing British citizens under say the age of 30 to live and work in EEA countries, at least on short-term bases eg like the old fashioned 2 year visa you used to be able to get for Australia.

Just dropping in nothing to say. Dreading the triumphalism which will no doubt be spouted on Friday and Saturday. I really still feel gutted that the collective 'we' have been stupid enough to do this.

Keeping that kind of light on would need to be reciprocated by a similar lightbulb attitude in the UK.
I'm not sure, from my experience over the last 5 years, that many partner universities will think there is much advantage to keeping places open for UK students unless there are places for their students in the UK and some kind of funding to help them pay for accommodation, travel, etc., which are expensive in many UK cities and which the Erasmus grant helps cover.

As I have mentioned before on here, we are finding that increasing numbers of UK students have MH issues that we just don't have the resources to handle. At the same time, their language skills have got tangibly poorer so that they are ill-equipped to study in France and to deal with healthcare professionals when needed.
Since September, I think 6 incoming UK students have returned home partway through their exchange in my department alone, citing anxiety, depression, etc. And one other pulled out before coming.

The number of native speaker MFL teachers in the UK is likely to drop in coming months and years, I suspect, due to the hostile environment.

Just swore "Fuck off" shouted at the TV when BJ responded to a question from an SNP MP about asking for reassurance that his government would be working on Ersasmus and the opportunity to study abroad with, "Nothing in the WA stops our young people from being able to explore opportunities abroad"

There speaks money and privilege . Either that or both he doesn't even realise what Erasmus (or Erasmus Plus) does

At the same time, their language skills have got tangibly poorer

Why do you think this is? Just fewer students taking MFL = less competition for entry onto an MFL degree? They are presumably second/third year students - you'd expect near fluency by that stage surely?

Mistigri, I don't know. I think it's partly to do with teaching methods, with less focus on grammar that, at some point down the line, means that they can more or less handle basic communication, but haven't a clear grasp of how the language works.
I'm not sure what the marking criteria are for A-level or equivalent MFL exams these days. It's possible that it is easier to get on to MFL degree courses now because there are fewer applicants, and I think there are more joint courses than before, so the proportion of time devoted to the MFL is lower than for single degree students in the past.

Also, one colleague at a Scottish university told me they are no longer allowed to refuse candidates for Erasmus exchanges who clearly don't have the required language level. If there are spaces, those students will go. Which would be a good principle if they then didn't hang out with other UK students once they get here.

I teach a French-English translation module for our incoming Erasmus students, and I can see who has learnt the imparfait/conditionnel/futur properly and can therefore translate them accurately and who hasn't.

I've also noticed an odd trend towards presuming that French works the same as English and you can therefore translate word for word.
A surprising number of UK students say "Bon matin!" even though I can't believe they were taught to do so and you'd think they'd have noticed no one ever says that and that there's a surprised reaction when they do.
Or "je suis allé(e) à cette classe" for "I'm going to this class".

It varies from university to university, though, and there are still some really good French speakers. Over the years, I have compiled a mental league table of UK universities which usually proves accurate with each new intake.

The thing is that EEA countries are Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. Apart from Liechtenstein which speaks a German dialect, I don't think the majority of ML students are learning Icelandic or Norwegian. There obviously are a lot of Spanish speaking countries, so maybe new opportunities will open up with Latin American countries. It doesn't alter the fact that we are deliberately slamming