Cake and eat it. Wrong again.

[Cobblersandhogwash]

Brexiteer minister thinks free movement is essential for musicians.

God. Why don't they get it? This is what Brexit is. FoM is over. Done.

And if they want FoM for British musicians, what about everyone else?

It just shows how shortsighted they are and what a complete and utter lack of understanding they have of the cornerstones of EU membership.

Such a loss.

These people are very ignorant (this should not be a surprise in 2020).

It's not just about FOM for musicians but also about the border formalities (import/export procedures for instruments and other gear) that are going to make touring a nightmare for all but the biggest acts.

I think the Brexiters really thought that they could carry on cherrypicking the bits of the EU that they wanted. They did not expect to have their bluff called.

You don't get it.
He didn't say freedom of movement.
He said free movement.
They're going to blind the silly old EU with their incredible verbal trickery and sleight of hand, request FOM under a totally different name and no one will spot how cunning they are being.
Or else it's Raab and Calais all over again - just the latest in a long series, in which June Mummery also features prominently.

I remember going to Spain in the 70s and meeting several bands playing the resorts etc.
I also had a bf who was the road manger for a well known Irish Band at the time, don't remember there being any talk of them having a problem touring or getting into the UK.

Not only will musicians require work permits and social security arrangements for every EU state they work in, they will also require a carnet and have to account for every drum stick, guitar string and cable they import (or pay duties):

Touring artists would require carnets – essentially a detailed passport for merchandise – to avoid paying duty on goods brought into EU nations for business reasons, such as publicity and education materials and equipment used for work. A carnet costs £325.96 and is valid for one year: it requires the holder to list every item they take into a country.

Ah but you see @doubletrouble the world has moved on since the 70's - hate to break it to you, but things have changed.

Tbh got so fucking angry as I wrote the above because it's classic brexiteer/little englander thought process. 50 years ago it wasn't a problem- so why would it be now? The answer is simply that although you or your world view may not have changed, everything has around you - whether you like it or not.

The arrogance of your reply mrslaughan just exemplifies why so many of us can't be bothered with you lot.
So pray explain to the simple minded just exactly what has changed to make it more difficult to entre and exit from a Non EU country that you are so concerned about.

I remember going to Spain in the 70s and meeting several bands playing the resorts etc.
And I remember going to Spain in the 70s and only being allowed to take £50 because of currency restrictions. Those were the days. As others have already pointed out, the past is another country.

Currently touring bands don’t need to register all their gear or pay for visas. They don’t require an international driver’s licence. Post Brexit they will - meaning that touring becomes a lot more expensive and thus preventing new bands from touring abroad. The music industry has been warning about this for years - it’s fallen on deaf ears. Just like pro Europeans have been warning that having no representation in the EU parliament will be detrimental to the UK ... and Brexit MEPs have only just twigged. This is the state of the country at the moment ... the penny is beginning to drop, but it’s too late to do anything about it now. Brexit Johnson can do what he likes with his massive majority and people will still bung a bob to hear big Ben’s bellend ring. It feels like satire.

Mistigri provided one example of what has changed since the 70s.
Being within the EU provides advantages that being outside the EU does not.
That's part of being in a trading bloc.
The current situation cannot be compared to what life was like when no one was in the EU because it did not exist in its current form.
The UK can't live in the 1970s as of 2021, because no one else lives in the 70s.

And I've actually been on tour with bands. And yes, times have changed since the 70s.

@AuldAlliance - Brilliant! I love that reasoning, although think I would like to go back to the 70's when all I had to worry about was getting Twinkle comic and a 10p mix

So pray explain to the simple minded just exactly what has changed to make it more difficult to entre and exit from a Non EU country that you are so concerned about.

I'll start. When I first visited the UK in 1997, as a national of a commonwealth country, I didn't need a visa. This got tightened up, fortunately once I was already resident here with a British passport, and my family could only visit me with a family visit visa. Elderly parents could have theoretically joined me. Both of these things are now done away with, and to visit now requires a tourist visa which is an extremely onerous process.
In the 70s I suspect simply being married to a Brit would have got you residency. Now, people are deprived of a family life and separated from spouses and children if they feel to meet the again extremely onerous criteria.
In short, things have changed enormously, they've been tightened up enormously not just in the UK but globally. Saying it was fine in the 70s is utterly irrelevant.
There's no point you getting angry with having reality pointed out to you.

So pray explain to the simple minded just exactly what has changed to make it more difficult to entre and exit from a Non EU country that you are so concerned about.
Errrrr.....the EU and their freedom of movement rules, and agreements?
The 70s was 50 years ago! Its like comparing what happened then with the rules in the 20s!! Crazy......

angemorange
Me too.
Or deciding between a 10p mix and a sherbet fountain (5p, I think).

If the early 70's were so great double, why are you using the internet ?

MaxNormal Absolutely. A friend of mine moved to the UK from USA in the 1970s as soon as she got married she was granted indefinite right to remain. My daughter's friend married someone from overseas and they were not able to get automatic right of residency. I think they had to go back to their home country for a while Because the rules are much tighter now.
The world is a very different place now than it was in the 1970s. We can't just go back.

From what I understand from music professionals, it used to be expensive and complex to tour a few decades ago (and still is if you go outside the EU).

In the 70s the industry structure was different. You could still make money from recorded music. Working without a permit was probably policed less aggressively and I'd bet that a lot of musicians worked illegally and were paid in cash.

These days all money is in touring, it's no longer a loss leader, it's your main income. If there is no money in touring, because the paperwork is too expensive and the timescales too long, then people won't tour.

@doubletrouble it's not my arrogance - there's no arrogance, exasperation - yes. That people opin that it was fine 50 years ago - so it should be now. It's your ignorance that stands out.

@Nonnymum I am a New Zealand-we married to Brit. I have lived here with him 10years (we have been married 20) I was explaining to a friend the hoops (and cost) we had to jump through for me to be able to live here with him and our children. I have a friend whose American husband was denied residency. Her response was - but I have lots of friends married to non-brits . I asked what country's? Her response was all EU countries.
You could literally see the penny drop that this is going to get nasty and really complicated.
The HOme office is a really nasty place, where they don't follow the law - they just hope you don't have the money to appeal.

just the latest in a long series, in which June Mummery also features prominently.

Doesn’t she have her own box set by now?

I really don't know why you cite an Irish Band as not having trouble getting into the UK doubletrouble. There are still special rules between the UK and the Republic.

Ireland and the U.K. have had mutual agreements on cross border travel for much of the past century. Irish citizens can live and work in the U.K., and vice versa, independent of Brexit.

We still had smallpox in the 1970s. Ergo, smallpox was fiiiiiiine and we should in fact welcome its return.

Will the Brexit fan be back to either argue their corner or admit their mistake? I doubt it. More likely to run off to another thread, claiming to have been bullied and called nasty names. Brexit is insane - almost everything about it is ridiculous and seeing it through has become cultish. Utter madness.