Westministenders: Canada Plus and the Transition Phase

[RedToothBrush]

As we approach the 31st January, we slowly tick towards exit and transition.

Things are not yet signed off though the No Deal planning has quietly been stood down with no press release and the government have said they won't talk about trade deals post 31st Jan because the public are bored of them and don't understand.

The new EU president has said that the UK doesn't have time to make a full deal with the EU before 31st December with a deadline which isn't flexible.

We still have no idea what the government plans are. We still have many EU citizens feeling very vulnerable.

Perhaps we should start talking about this rather than Royals for a couple of weeks...

Remember this isn't "you can't change stuff during a transition period" this is "you can't change stuff, ever"

The UK can refuse to agree to this though, i'd assume that IF it does sign up to high labour and enviro standards (or other EU demands) then the trade off would have been considered to be worth it?

Just as with the USA, any FTA will come with costs to some sectors.

Trump will win, there is no doubt of that. The Democrats do not have anyone who will inspire people to vote for them. But then maybe that is the long term plan - let Trump do out his second term, then come back next time around with a sure fire winner for the Democrats, hopefully all the old contenders will have moved on.

It will be interesting to see the results state by state. Not all America is rabidly pro Trump (just as not all the UK is pro Boris, despite the electoral modesty blouse).

So, what, I shouldn't give an opinion?

For the avoidance of doubt, I had noticed, thank you.

Its a long time to November, a lot can happen.
Trumps approval ratings are in the negative and for the UKs sake, i hope they stay there because if he wins, the UK will head west, conversely, a democratic win means we may stay closer to the EU and Louise may get her wish!

Sorry I don't think I quite understood your point.

i think the UK will be stuck between a rock and a hard place here. US and EU. Quite predictable of course.

I still think it's quite right that the EU politicians prioritise their own citizens by offering flexibility within and strength without. I believe the UK has benefited from this but obviously I'm in a minority so now it's leaving and we'll see what happens. It will be fascinating and miserable in equal measure. I wonder how the press will cover the first summit with UK officials waiting outside pen and paper in hand with the Norwegians to see what's gone on.

That it should be forced to do so by the EU after it has left.

It's not being forced to do anything. This is just standard Brexit exceptionalism/victim complex. A LPF will simply be the cost of doing anything more than a minimal deal. Take it or leave it

So, what, I shouldn't give an opinion?

Not at all - the more opinions the better. The point I was trying to make was that having "won" Brexiteers are now trapped and can do no more.

For the avoidance of doubt, I had noticed, thank you.

You are very welcome, it was no problem.

Underneath the tough talk on both sides, there are genuine red lines

The EU will not grant the full frictionless access that the UK govt wants - freedom of goods, services and capital - unless it accepts the other pillar: freedom of labour,
i.e. accept FOM in the strictest sense, not the over-generous version that the UK allowed

So if he went that route, then BJ can present the actual FOM rules as having won some "concessions" on FOM

Also, the SIngle Market depends on common standards and requirements that can be enforced,
i.e. accept the ECJ

Real bottom line - I expect - is that the EU won't demand higher standards from the Uk than from its own members, but won't accept lower standards either
and will want the ECJ to be able to enforce them

As posted about the UK covering up a fault in the Police National Computer re convictions and also the long delay in paying the 2.7 bn fine over the Chinese textile fraud,

the UK may be subject to more stringent monitoring than EU members, because the UK has been shown both to be alarmingly incompetent and also dishonest

Maybe "forced" was too strong a term, but my point was that the playing field being apparently being insisted upon is not "level".

Its a long time to November, a lot can happen.

Well yes. But absent a lucky assassin, or some medical incident, I think its pretty settled.

Trumps approval ratings are in the negative and for the UKs sake, i hope they stay there

The US presidential election doesn't really work that way. Even if there were a 20-point leading Democrat candidate (there isn't) it's unlikely to affect a Trump victory. That said, no one would savour a Dewey defeats Truman moment more than I.

Maybe "forced" was too strong a term, but my point was that the playing field being apparently being insisted upon is not "level".

Cats eat mice, which has always seemed unfair too ....

I know this will come as a shock to those who regularly PMK at the start of every thread but I'd like to hope that as a species we are marginally more advanced than cats Jury's still out, obvs

Extraordinary that clavinova insists Brexit was not Musk's main reason for not putting the Tesla in Britain .... when he himself says it is !

I agree Germany was a strong contender, as it will be in most tech areas
However, Brexit has ruled out the UK even from serious consideration in many contracts and new investment over the last 3 years
This looks like continuing, unless the trade deal is a BRINO

e.g.
In my own employer in Germany,
British suppliers that have been winning contracts for years were simply removed from the list of available suppliers we could propose for new projects
.... that happened immediately after the referendum, so not a recent thing.

Since then, British suppliers have obviously lost out on all the contracts they would expect to win
and have not been returned to the supplier databank

That's step 1 in how German firms have prepared for Brexit:

1. remove British firms from the supply chain, R&D etc

We can assume the same has happened many times re new foreign investment in the UK, for the same reasons

Another NI bung required ?
Will Scotland demand similar ?

This Tory Brexit project really is damaging the unity of the UK, far more than anything that the SNP or Sinn Féin could have achieved on their own

Northern Ireland firms could seek £100m Brexit compensation

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/06/northern-ireland-firms-could-seek-100m-brexit-compensation

Business leaders say they should not have to pay extra costs due to policy ‘people here did not vote for’

I haven't caught up with the thread but want to vent my angst about the crowd funding to ring Big Ben and other campanology issues for the 31 Jan.

Fine if the winners think that ringing bells is a sensible step to securing a good replacement arrangement. Going forwards for equivalence and fairness can we then ring bells every time we enter and leave a f*ing trading arrangement or bloc?

Going forwards for equivalence and fairness can we then ring bells every time we enter and leave a fing trading arrangement or bloc?*

Don't see why not. In fact the sooner Big Ben gets back to his regular bonging schedule the better imho - but still prefer them to finish the restoration properly first.

Reading some of the Twit feeds about breaking into churches to ring bells, it is genuinely impossible to separate the actually bonkers Brexiteers from the piss-takers.

Beyond Satire.

I haven't caught up with the thread but want to vent my angst about the crowd funding to ring Big Ben and other campanology issues for the 31 Jan.

Better places to vent anger, I'd say. At least there's some grim laughs to be had watching loads of crowdfunders failing miserably. It's even better that the world-class tit Mark Francois predicted they'd hit £500,000 in 48 hours. I guess that's inflation for you.

I like Big Ben. I don't want it associated in my mind with what I'll always consider to be the biggest mistake of the last decades.

Maybe Arron Banks could call up his Russian mates and we could have the Kremlin bell relayed over.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/big-ben-brexit-bong-crowdfund-donate-boris-johnson-eu-a9284536.html

I did like :

Meanwhile Nigel Farage confirmed that the Leave Means Leave group has been given permission to hold an event in Parliament Square on 31 January.

The Brexit Party leader has also called for the government to fund the cost of Big Ben ringing on Brexit Day.

He wrote on Twitter: “The government have rejected my idea for them to underwrite the cost of Big Ben bonging on Jan 31st.

“If they were enthusiastic about celebrating Brexit and not embarrassed by it, they would make this commitment.”^

I'd like to hold him to that. If the government does not spunk up for Big Ben, can we assume they are embarrassed

Currently £920 donated by 68 people.

www.gofundme.com/f/big-ben-bongs-for-brexit

Currently £920 donated by 68 people.

Well, that's clearly the will of the people, if not the bell.

I imagine some more well off Brexiteers are now wary of donating as it would simply highlight the embarrassment. I wonder what MF will say if it gets mentioned again ? I imagine he'll just say he "never said that".

Even Big Bens not clapping Brexit

Somewhere, the last true Leavers - the ones I refused to call Brexiteers - are ...

If they were enthusiastic about celebrating Brexit and not embarrassed by it, they would make this commitment.

Wow, how can he even speculate that the cabinet of true believers is less than enthusiastic about brexit! Shocking!