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Brexit

Westministenders: Canada Plus and the Transition Phase

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/01/2020 19:57

As we approach the 31st January, we slowly tick towards exit and transition.

Things are not yet signed off though the No Deal planning has quietly been stood down with no press release and the government have said they won't talk about trade deals post 31st Jan because the public are bored of them and don't understand.

The new EU president has said that the UK doesn't have time to make a full deal with the EU before 31st December with a deadline which isn't flexible.

We still have no idea what the government plans are. We still have many EU citizens feeling very vulnerable.

Perhaps we should start talking about this rather than Royals for a couple of weeks...

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Jason118 · 17/01/2020 23:01

I'd like to understand who decides to publish the .gov Brexit stuff. Surely anyone reading the link posted earlier will see that it is in fact utter garbage? Hopefully these 'promised wonders' will be collated and if things don't pan out will be used to hold them to account. Labour, where are you?

Peregrina · 17/01/2020 23:27

The Brexiters are crowing that £200,000 of the £500,000 has already been raised so that Big Ben can bong on 31st January. Andrea Leasdom has thoughtfully, if not generously, bunged them a tenner.

It made me think - what is the cost of employing a nurse for a year? Not a newly qualified one or one on the top whack salary - but say one with 5 -15 years experience - the sort who will be the backbone of the NHS. I thought - possibly £30,000 to £35,000 with employers costs added on. So the Opportunity Cost of Bonging Big Ben for a few minutes is the cost of employing 14 - 17 nurses for a whole year.

Perhaps those who voted Tory hoping that they would protect the NHS would like to think on which is the better value and gives the better value to society.

colouringinpro · 17/01/2020 23:39

ok totally tin hat change of subject, but is it just a coincidence that EU Ref campaign/result was definitely influenced by Russia and Harry and Megan's Vancouver house is funded by a Russian with links to the Kremlin?

Miljea · 18/01/2020 00:37

You'd think the Brexiters has learned their lesson about 'embarrassing flop' parties, wouldn't you?

And where is this as yet undisclosed 'northern location' going to be?

Will they be shipbuilding by Feb?.....

Westministenders: Canada Plus and the Transition Phase
Torchlightt · 18/01/2020 00:57

Apparently we have another 2 (maybe 3) days to join the Labour party in time to vote for the new leaders. Is anyone doing this? I had an email from Labour informing me. And apparently you can join as long as you're over 14, so DCs may want to join too.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:02

"The EU tends towards Centralisation and harmonisation not collaboration and co-operation."

The UK is one of the most centralised countries in the West, never mind in the EU

"Harmonisation" is what enables frictionless trade; it is also what enables co-operation on climate change etc

"co-operation" on its own isn't enough

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:05

The world is "cooperating" on climate change, meaning there is no compulsion, so some countries are just making things worse

With agreed minimum standards across the EU, all members have to at least fulfill those
All members can then choose to do more if they want / can

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2020 08:06

A giant cock complete with countdown, is to be projected onto Downing St for the 31st.
We are also going to go for no alignment with EU rules or so the talk goes, with businesses told to work around the challenges as the Japanese have done but there will be losers!!! mmmmmm.

Going to double economic growth too.

bellinisurge · 18/01/2020 08:07

Hoping for really shit weather overnight on 31 January

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:33

but not on the Rhine, please bellini
31st is the retirement supper at my fav Rhine cafe and we'll want a walk too 🤞

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:33

I may feel a bit odd celebrating my freedom then, but it's probably a good idea

Mockers2020Vision · 18/01/2020 08:36

A giant cock complete with countdown, is to be projected onto Downing St

Presumably not a Poulet Bresse

And we're not having any of that alignment. That'll show 'em. Brexit in Channel, Continent Cut Off.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:42

To match the cock living there, good idea

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:49

Brexit: no union jack-lowering ceremony in European parliament

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/16/brexit-no-union-jack-lowering-ceremony-in-european-parliament

Brexit party MEPs lobbied for a ‘last days of empire’ style ceremony 🤦🏻‍♀️
< they would not have liked a ceremony chosen by the majority of MEPs, which might have involved a boot applied to the entitled BXP backsides >
....
Instead of the potentially dramatic scene of a union jack being lowered against the midnight sky when Britain leaves the EU on 31 January,
parliament grounds staff will remove the flags without ceremony at an unconfirmed time.
......
Brexit party MEPs had lobbied for a flag-lowering ceremony, a Brussels analogue to the campaign to have Big Ben “Bong for Brexit” in London.

Instead, the European parliament president, David Sassoli, will preside over a low-key ceremony with British MEPs on the evening of 29 January,
shortly after the entire parliament votes on the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2020 09:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

jasjas1973 · 18/01/2020 09:08

So sad.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/01/2020 09:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 09:56

"How will that ever aid any kind of reconciliation?"

They don't want reconciliation
They want to rub our noses in it

They'll keep yelling "we won" whatever goes wrong
.... and keep demanding we fix their broken Brexit toy

Mockers2020Vision · 18/01/2020 10:29

Trump also talks about "Healing." You need to understand who they think is the disease.

malylis · 18/01/2020 10:31

Wow, paid a visit to the other place, Javid warning that brexit won't benefit all business is taken as a good thing, whilst they think the north is gonna some how benefit.

Genuinely baffled.

cologne4711 · 18/01/2020 11:34

Hoping for really shit weather overnight on 31 January Yes some snow would do. But anything that stops fireworks and keeps the triumphalist Brexiteers at home.

Just wondering abut inviting myself to BigChoc's retirement party in Germany. You don't mind if a few MNers join you to escape for the weekend do you?

TheABC · 18/01/2020 11:43

The whole debacle has been marked by an utter lack of grace, akin to a football match rather than people's lives.

Mistigri · 18/01/2020 11:44

This may already have been posted, but Chris Grey's lastest blog is masterpiece of Brexit commentary. I find him far more clear eyed than even the best journalists, probably because he doesn't need a story and isn't constrained by a word limit.

It is one of the biggest paradoxes of Brexit, because most of those who understand what it entails at a practical level do not support it, whilst most of those who support it strongly do not understand what it entails at a practical level.

...

At the wider level, this paradox presents any Brexit government with a massive problem. Either it ignores those with the knowledge and flounders around trying to square the impossible circle of ‘true Brexit’ with no adverse consequences, or it listens to those with knowledge and has to compromise on at least aspects of ‘true Brexit’.

Whilst that has been true throughout the Brexit process, it is now an acute issue with the trade negotiations starting and the timescale tightening. A key part of any trade negotiation process – and one reason they take a long time – is that governments need to engage and consult with the business and other groups which will be affected by whatever is agreed. If government as a whole persists with the Leadsom line then the incentives for businesses to stay and invest in Britain sharply diminish, as they see that the government does not have – and, worse, does not want to have - a serious grasp of the issues involved. With time running out, the business decisions will need to be taken before realism intrudes, if, indeed, it ever does. And businesses will make those decisions.^
^
However, if the government does start to engage seriously with business (and other experts and stakeholders) then the paradox asserts itself in a new way, with this realism conflicting with the first two dynamics. This is exactly what we saw with the May government. Having delighted the Ultras by embracing hard Brexit, and accepted the lack of realism of the Brexit promise by imagining that, even so, there could be ‘frictionless trade’ for goods and services, there came a point in 2018 when May understood how damaging this would be. That was what led to the Chequers Proposal which – flawed as it was – began to recognize some of the complexities and trade-offs. Cue Johnson and Davis resigning and the government falling into the disarray from which it never recovered.^
^
It is true that Johnson’s majority makes him far more secure than May. On the other hand, the time pressures Johnson has created for himself are all the greater, and his negotiating position with the EU is also much weaker than May’s at the time of Chequers. May had the possibility of extending Article 50, as she did, and, until the Withdrawal Agreement was completed, the core EU concerns around the financial settlement, Irish Border, and Citizens’ Rights remained unresolved. Now, Johnson could only extend the transition period with difficulty, both because of domestic politics and because, on the EU side, transition extension is less assured than it was for Article 50 extension. Meanwhile, the EU’s core withdrawal demands have been met. And, in any case, the votes of the ERG are more than enough to defeat Johnson, despite his majority.

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/01/as-costs-mount-brexit-goes-round-same.html

He also makes the good point that there is no longer any incentive for business to make the case for remaining. It will just quietly vote with its feet and its chequebook. This is 100% my experience in my own professional life. My employer started building a third European factory in 2017, for the part of the business that will be most affected by Brexit. The various delays to Brexit and the avoidance of no deal mean that it will be fully commissioned by the time that friction at Dover makes it impossible to manufacture in the U.K. for delivery into JIT supply chains.

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