What are you most looking forward to POST-Brexit?

[Pumperthepumper]

I was a remain voter, and voted tactically against the Tories. I lost.

But onwards and upwards! We’re getting Brexit in January, like it or not, so I was just wondering what everyone was looking forward to the most?

I asked on a different pro-Brexit thread but nobody gave me an answer.

For me it’s the 350 million to the NHS with no trade deals with Trump. Or the continuing Peace in NI with no messing around with the GFA. Or the trade deals we’ve been promised without any reduction in standards.

I’m so ready to be convinced of how brilliant Brexit will be! Let me hear your positives, please

@Devereux1, at the very least please just answer my question about putting up trade barriers which I see only as a negative.

You see it as a positive. Why?

I see Brexit as improving my life and that of my country.

Give me some hope and tell me how brexit is going to improve your life and that of your country

@Devereux1 , can you give some examples of how EU states treated Britain 'appallingly' ?

The thing about tangibilitiess for those who voted to Leave, is, I suppose, that they are looking for something different to the previous status quo, so it may be difficult to answer specifically.

This is a better way of saying what I said above. There are no answers to be had from Devereux1 because she didn’t vote for anything, she didn’t vote for an improvement or for any benefits. She voted because she could.

So she can’t share facts or improvements because she knows there aren’t any. I think it’s time to let her rest now, the thread has become a bit of a pile on to someone who can’t give us any answers, and I’m guilty of that too.

dimsum123

Why should I? Nothing gets through to you. You are patronising, rude and unpleasant to deal with. Despite all that I have written, you still write:

Yes I think that too, her vote was based on emotion and beliefs not facts.

You are firmly entrenched in what you believe is true. You daren't read what is front of you, let alone read research and explanations from 3 years of Remain-created uncertainty. You simply daren't. You couldn't, because all your arguments would fall down like a house of cards.

Your arguments rest entirely on false assumptions fabricated in the Remain head. You can't engage intelligently with people like me, hence why you have to begin with the insults, the flippant comments, the goading. You demand detail when you have had all the detail in the world. You think you will catch me out, that's all you care about, because of your own insecurities. You become just another GF. Your arguments are not strong enough to stand in their own right, and deep down, don't you just know it.

Nighty night.

And it works, if you also throw in some Latin from Eton to reassure people you're actually raaather clever (too clever to brush your hair) and then some picaninny/postbox comments to show that you're on a certain wavelength... Job done.

So true. Spot on - and doubly clever when you look at Johnson next to David Cameron, essentially the same build-your-own-Tory MP, reassuringly rich and educated but much less robotic and much more apologetic. Add a dash of xenophobia and few anti-immigrant soundbites and bosh, done!

Again...Irish Reunification! This isn't going away!

Devereux1 does have answers and reasons for why she voted to leave. She just won't share them.

I would absolutely love to not be utterly depressed and worried about leaving and if her research points to us being better off out of the EU then I want to read it.

@Devereux1, are you going to come back and reply to my question about the benefits of putting up trade barriers?

Pumperthepumper

There are no answers to be had from Devereux1 because she didn’t vote for anything
Despite me telling you, explicitly and clearly, that I did. What is in you that can't bear to believe it?

she didn’t vote for an improvement or for any benefits. She voted because she could.
Despite me telling you clearly that I did.

So she can’t share facts or improvements because she knows there aren’t any.
Despite me telling you clearly that the facts and research are there, but you are so obviously terrified of reading them for youself.

I think it’s time to let her rest now, the thread has become a bit of a pile on to someone who can’t give us any answers, and I’m guilty of that too.
Definitely an ugly, and humilating for you, pile on. Answers given yet you are tone deaf. Yes, you are guilty.

Tonight you have every right to feel ashamed and embarrassed. I'll support you fully in that.

Nighty night.

Pumper, I think BJ has a reptilian intelligence, like Trump, which allows him to home in on key populist points without getting bogged down in details. Like truth, for instance.

I'm sorry devereux has gone, as I was interested in their answers to my courteously worded questions.

Devereux
If we are in a remain bubble, please puncture it with a rapier sharp tangible benefit to you and your family of
(a) leaving
(b) leaving without a trade deal especially now the WTO has ceased functioning
Just one thing that will deflate our hubris
would actually be very welcome

I’m sorry Devereux1 and I mean that. You’ve had a hard time on here and it’s not fair - people are desperate for answers and you seemed like you might be able to provide them. Best of luck with it all

I’ve yet to find out the benefits of brexit, roll onto January and we’ll all possibly find out....

Pumper, I think BJ has a reptilian intelligence, like Trump, which allows him to home in on key populist points without getting bogged down in details. Like truth, for instance.

Yes, which again feeds into our love of soundbites. Short, clear messages that change depending on who’s listening, and nobody is really expecting him to tell the truth anyway. It’s really clever, when you really think about it. It’s such a simple concept and so effective.

@Devereux1

"Despite me telling you clearly that the facts and research are there" Link please.

If you provide links to your facts and research which led you to vote leave.

And you still have not answered my question about the advantages of UK putting up trade barriers with the EU when the rest of the EU is a tariff and customs free zone, with whom we will still trade after Brexit, but with a huge disadvantage.

Please explain how and why this is a good thing.

Dimsum I know it’s really frustrating, but there’s nothing more to be said. She can’t give you the answers you’re looking for. I said upthread - I think leavers think that remainers are desperate for Brexit to fail, but they’re wrong. I’m desperate for it to be a success. I really am. I want my children to live in an open, fair society with culture and education and an NHS. I want them to experience things, I want them to be able to travel and live abroad and learn languages. I want them to be able to work and support a family and pay taxes and support people worse off. I want them to be able to save and have pensions and buy houses and study and be safe. Im desperate, literally desperate, to know that we’re not just about to walk in to this huge mess that will affect my children for the rest of their lives. And that we’re not just walking into it ‘because’. But we are, that’s the truth.

Hush now, you're really just looking very silly.

Why is asking a civilised question silly?

Richard North was always a leaver, but he was able to write down what his reasons were. He was more of a believer in EEA terms from what I can remember.

Or as someone who is a Hedge fund trader - they could always say that their own reason is to make shed loads of money. It isn't one I agree with, but it's a proper reason and not just soundbites.

How completely sick of you to look forward to the generation that fought for your freedom to disappear.

Most of them are already gone. Including my D Day landing veteran grandfather who was still around in 2016 aged 92, and voted remain.

I would never say I would look forward to any group of people dying, but it is indeed galling to think that the baby boomers who did will barely need to live with the consequences. It is selfish.

I have to say this is a very depressing thread. People are piling on and being very dismissive and borderline bullying and demanding of those that disagree with them. How entitled to demand someone posts all their research, links etc? Do your own research! There will be articles and views espousing both sides online. And yes you may fear for what your children may (or may not) lose out on in the future. My thought is that many of those who voted for Brexit feel that their children lost out on opportunities like travel & learning foreign languages years and years ago. And that's why they voted in the way they did in the hope of change. Personally I don't agree but then my perception is based on my having benefited from the way things have been for a long time. Many of us think / thought that Corbyn would bring a needed change. Many others firmly believe that the change needs to come from elsewhere.

@Peregrina, the hedge fund example is exactly the sort of thing I was after. A tangible, quantifiable reason for an individual wanting to leave that makes logical rational sense.

It might be a very selfish reason that only benefits that individual, but it's a reason I can understand.

What I cannot understand are the soundbites spewed out by Brexiteers that are just words, slogans, tag lines, that have no actual meaning and do not translate into anything tangible.

Maybe Devereux1 is a hedge fund trader and she has shorted the UK? That would explain her insistence that leaving is a good thing in the absence of anything else.

My now 96 year old MIL voted Remain. She was married before they started regularly calling up women and they didn't call up married women, but she did do war work.

If DH as one of the baby boom (or the bulge as we used to know it) lives as long as his mother, he has another quarter of a century ahead of him - so it would be quite a long time to live with the consequences. However, since we both voted Remain, our opinions don't now count.

I've done my research and it all points to Brexit being a total and utter articulated lorry crash.

But if research exists that says otherwise, and I haven't found it, why is it bullying to ask for a link?

And I can understand people want change, especially those who have been ignored by successive governments. But that is nothing to do with the EU. And leaving the EU is certainly not going to help them. They've been conned into thinking that by the aforementioned hedge funders et al ie the Tories and their bff who will absolutely benefit from Brexit as will Trump, BJ's bff and f and f.

I think my onwards and upwards (as a remain labour voter who thankfully lives in a safe labour seat) is to think about how to help society's most vulnerable and use that as my inspiration to move forward

My thought is that many of those who voted for Brexit feel that their children lost out on opportunities like travel & learning foreign languages years and years ago. And that's why they voted in the way they did in the hope of change.

This is really interesting. I can see where the disgruntlement might arise.
However, with the best will in the world, I can't see how you might conclude that exiting the EU, disengaging from Erasmus (which allows people from all walks of life, not just university students or academics, to experience funded international mobility) and reducing ties - and mutual goodwill - with your closest neighbours could help your kids travel and learn foreign languages.

I really am looking forward to the fish argument. I want to see how that goes and who Johnson decides to piss off, and how.

That's going to be the interesting thing over the next five years - at a very basic level this is an upset to the status quo, and lots of business are very literally invested in the status quo. If that goes, what do they do, and how many people does Johnson piss off in the process, how badly?