Brexit Arms: the discussion continues....

[XingMing]

I'm not promising to be the resident landlady, and I can't even hope to moderate the discussion or offer up great memes etc because I don't know how, but here's opening the next iteration....

First drink is on the house.

I spent the first 45 minutes trying to get DS's system to work for me and am rather glad you are all saying I didn't miss much.

I did think JC's gift of 'A Christmas Carol' was superb. Both witty and very pointed.

I despise both of them. I thought Corbyn stuck to whatever script he was given- the Christmas present quip was good, the rest was the same old same old. Johnson was dull and repetitive- again I imagine he had a script.
Nothing really changed my opinion of either.

Just finished watching it...
What a load of bollocks!

The host was shit - kept interrupting ineffectually & didn't press either of them to actually answer 😩😩

BJ was slightly better than Corbz I think - made me laugh how he kept shoehorning Brexit into every single question 😂

Is Andrew Neill doing a one-on-one with each of them?
That'll be the most illuminating format I think

So, neither is good or passionate enough without a script? Who is writing the words?

I’m not sure it was that tbh Xing, I think it was more that neither had the opportunity to fully develop their arguments and responses. The format was terrible... it would have been better as a two hour job, no adverts, no clapping at each point, less interrupting, just gentle steering and no ridiculous questions. It was doomed to fail on all sides imo.

Head girl Jo, ought to thank her lucky stars she escaped that utter shitshow!

Lucky escape then? I'm turning in, but as this bar is virtual, a nightcap?

Morning ! missed last nights debate as working. Does anyone think it will have made any difference to peoples perceptions of Johnson or Corbyn ? Personally, I think Corbyn had the most to gain from the debate, how do you think he did ? thinking objectively, as I know he has few fans on here

I despise him. I think he didn't fuck up. He didn't come across as a loon. However, both of them were clearly "under orders". Having had media training myself and having occasionally had to put myself in the media and industry "firing line" for work , I recognise it in others.
Corbyn did well at the last minute "off the wall" question about what they would put under each other's tree as a Christmas gift - Corbyn said a copy of A Christmas Carol. Johnson blabbered about a copy of the deal and how he knows Corbyn likes plants and trees and how he'd get him damson jam.
If you were playing vodka bingo and you had "get Brexit done" on your list, you would have got pissed.

I thought the Christmas present question was ridiculous. This was supposed to be a serious political debate but it was more like a weird version of blind date.
The format was awful with all the clapping, & they were both far too scared to move off script.
Boring.

It was a ridiculous question. I agree. It was supposed to show you a bit about the person and how quick they were on their feet. To be honest, I think Corbyn actually did better on the "quick fire questions" . Which surprised me a bit. I thought it would be the other way around.
Still despise them both.

So after that I think anti Brexit candidates will get more votes overall in the GE but the Tories will win a majority.

If you were playing vodka bingo and you had "get Brexit done" on your list, you would have got pissed.

😂Bellini.

Also 😂 at a weird version of blind date, Dirtyrottenscoundrel.

You've both summed it up far more succinctly than today's sketch writers will manage, although I suspect they're paid by the word.

It won't have changed anyone's mind, in my view. I don't even think it confirmed anyone's pre-existing bias. The whole format was terrible and the performances were just irritating towards the end. The only thing I can think (media training here too, Bellini) was that they both knew only short bursts would be shown on the news highlights so they stuck to their respective soundbites.

Speaking of media presentation, has anyone noticed this new habit of looking upwards when speaking on camera to an audience? I've noticed it with Jonathan Bartley, Sian Thingy and Head Girl Jo. It makes them look as though they are looking for alien spaceships. Most odd.

The morning after and the impression I have is that Jc was more measured, calm and thoughtful and bj jittery and slightly annoying.

The other thing is that I think Jc is making one of the same mistakes Hilary Clinton made in that she ignored the middle ground in her efforts to appeal to the disenfranchised. He bangs on about billionaires and the poor but there’s nothing for the vast swathes of working average tax payers in the middle (except nhs which they both have covered). Also I thought his comment at the end about epstein’s victims hit the wrong note (too virtue signally) whereas bj’s “justice must be served” answer was way better, more neutral, reached out to the centre better.

Morning all. Strong coffee for me if the landlady's around. I was disappointed in last night's debate too. BJ was supposed to have had an American Media person training him but I wasn't impressed. After the Prince Andrew car crash interview I thought he would have been much better prepared for the trust question. A bit of humility would have gone down well.

I only saw a bit of the debate last night and turned off. I thought the format was a farce and didn't help either BJ or JC. Whilst I have no plans to vote Labour (and there will be people who have no plans to vote Tory), I think it's only fair each of them had a chance to explain their position and be challenged on points rather than flitting back and forth like some quick fire round. Each party leader having a half hour grilling by Andrew Neil would be more useful in my opinion.

And bj could have listened more to the basic presentation training he must have received about how to look presidential. Breathe deeply, stillness looks good on camera, deep calm voice. So easy to do.

A fresh pot of strong coffee has just been made double: would you prefer hot or cold milk? Sugar is on the bar.

The Times judged the debate performances as neck and neck, but the op-ed pieces were lacklustre this morning. The most interesting item, for me, was a suggestion that GCSE should be abolished or much downgraded as largely irrelevant in a world where it's hard to escape education or training before 18.

I agree Holly - Andrew Neil drilling down to the facts would be great. I'd like to hear more about this 'selling of the NHS' report JC was waving about and know AN would have done his homework and wouldn't let anyone get away with anything.

Did anyone watch the 10pm debate with Swinson/Farage/Sturgeon/that day's Green Party leader? I didn't.

One of my friends didn't understand when JC said "selling off our NHS to Big Pharma" - who's "Big Farmer"???

totally agree @doubletrouble99

What's good is the Andrew Neil show (think its on a Weds night so should be one this eve) has been hitting good viewing figures. Last episode was expected to reach around 1 million viewers when catch up was included. I think that's really good, as Andrew is a fantastic interviewer and really drills into politician 'claims'. Last week he took the shadow health secretary and SNP to task.

No point having a debate if its just soundbites. The handshake thing on the ITV debate was particularly cringe as well. Why not hold politicians to a high standard via robust questioning and ensuring they are clear in their claims and promises instead? The way the debate was run didn't help with that at all and just forced both of them to rush answers and cram in buzzwords. Ridiculous.

@SingingLily - do you notice the hand thing? They all do it now. Instead of pointing your finger , hold your fingers in a fist with your thumb upturned but not sticking out too much. Kind of push down on your index finger and shake your fist down with your thumb still up. It's more "positive " than finger pointing. Obama used to do it. Johnson does it now.

Thanks for the coffee Xing. I watched the Andrew Neil show last week and thought it really showed what the public actually want to hear with him pulling apart the labour £500m a week pharma bill to the NHS. He had the author of the report it was based on in his show on Thursday Lunch time but it was at the end of the show and wasn't able to fully question him which was a real shame.
I would certainly recommend watching him tonight.

do you notice the hand thing?

No, I hadn't, Bellini, but now that you've said, I'll look out for it. Wonder if it's his American media advisor's influence? The only excruciatingly awful handshakes I'd really noticed were Donald Trump's which are so clearly an alpha male thing.