Brexit Arms: the discussion continues....

[XingMing]

I'm not promising to be the resident landlady, and I can't even hope to moderate the discussion or offer up great memes etc because I don't know how, but here's opening the next iteration....

First drink is on the house.

Seems Paul Mason thinks the BBC were bias tonight.

"they picked the best of Johnson, the worst of Corbyn - so glad I quit years ago"

Sore loser?

Just got in, haven't caught up with the latest posts, but just had to post this...

😂😂😂

🤡✊🌹

Limer 🤡😂✊🌹

Walking, was Paul watching something else?

@notangelinajolie

Are you buying something from Dianne Abbott?

“Being strong and not buying JL. If it goes down again, I will buy. Not loosing any sleep over missing out, I have bough enough calendars recently. It's in the hands of the Gods smile”

Defo a brexit election metaphor in here somewhere... 🤔😂😉

Anyone have any polls since Labour released their manifesto?

@Bearbehind sorry to hear your sad news. Hope you get better soon

Thanks for my meme dusty 😁😁😁😁

sorry to hear your sad news. Hope you get better soon

So do I.

I’d like to be able to make a positive choice on who I want to vote for rather than having to choose a party because I think the alternative would be worse.

What is Corbyn scared of re declaring where he stands on brexit?
How can you negotiate a great new deal if you’re not bothered either way?

Corbyn wants to leave - he’s being forced to go down the new deal and another vote route by his party, and he’s not a good enough leader to be able to put his views aside for the good of his party.

For what it's worth, I've long thought Jezza was just the front man. It's John McDonnell who calls the shots and he terrifies me. The whole direction of this current incarnation of the Labour Party terrifies me. He's an old school Marxist.

If you want to take over a political party (and a country), it's simple enough.

1.	Relax the membership rules: previous bans no longer an obstacle to membership. (see Liverpool)
2.	Get the new members to turn up for meetings in sufficient numbers to swing the votes your way. Heck, submit fake membership applications if you have to (see Falkirk).
3.	Take over key posts on committees.
4.	Once you control the committees, change the Party rules.
5.	Once all of the Party machinery is in your hands, control candidate selection. Only like-minded people need apply.
6.	Do whatever it takes to get in power: promise voters the earth, cobble together coalitions, doesn't matter. The ends justify the means.
7.	Once you are in power, change the law. Job done. Now you can do what you like.

I think we are at Step 6.

We are def at step 6 Lily

For all the hot air about BJ & Tories being 'far right' & practically 'literal Nazis' the threat from the far left is far more real & present imo

I have never voted Tory in my life but I am also not drawn to this Labour Party who don't seem to have a real grip on things either. It's ok saying ' we can renationalise ' everything but where does that leave the workers? Will they then be employed by the government under the same conditions? Will they still keep their jobs? How will the government ' buy' back these companies?
Just take them by force? I'm no economist and I agree that these so called ' fat cats' may need slimming down a bit but the ideology behind it all leaves me a bit puzzled.
How can they just say all this without telling us how it can be done?
Would Virgin trains ( for example) suddenly be British Rail again without anyone kicking
up a fuss?

Hope watched the whole thing last night and none of them impressed me. Nicola is good but I can't vote for her.
Lots of unanswered questions.
I suppose I'm ' politically homeless'

You're asking some excellent questions The80s to which I don't have the answers. I don't think Jezza does either

Agreed, Step 6 SingingLily

Nice one Bear good decision!

Some superb memes as always Epic!

I was out last night with one of my very oldest friends, she's always voted Labour, but this time she's voting Conservative! I was astonished tbh, but she's just fed up with Labour in their current state.

In the interests of balance, I did test what I know of the Conservative Party against the same criteria, Dusty and Limer. Before any mind readers pop in and tell me what I'm really thinking

Step 1 doesn't apply. Party membership rules have not changed although there was an influx of new members when despair reached fever pitch with Theresa May - roughly the period just after Chequers - so some elements of Step 2 apply. Anna Soubry referred to it as Purple Momentum but the evidence to support that is too sparse to be significant.

There is little evidence of Step 3. However, the influx of new members did influence the direction of a number of constituency parties where local voters were pro-Leave and the sitting MP was arch-Remain (as opposed to just straightforward Remain).

Step 4 doesn't apply. The Party rules have not changed. That's why the ERG waited so long to mount a no-confidence vote against Theresa May. A failed coup gave her a twelve month immunity period. In the event, however, the formation of the Brexit Party, the shocking collapse of the Conservative vote in the EU elections and the implacable pressure from grassroots party members forced her hand.

There are elements of Step 5. Every Conservative candidate has had to pledge formally that they will back Boris's deal.

As for Step 6, everyone can make up their own minds about the manifesto when it is published, but I'd bet the house there are no plans to change the law to expand the electorate exponentially to load the dice in the Party's favour, as there are in the Labour manifesto.

There are articles today saying that Labour only has to win about 270 seats to "win" as long as they can cobble a coalition together.

How can you negotiate a great new deal if you’re not bothered either way?

More to the point how can you negotiate a deal which involves any sort of leaving unless you have actually confirmed your commitment to Leave?

If Corbyn actually declared for Remain then the EU would be "doing him a favour" by offering to make Leave as penal as possible.

More to the point how can you negotiate a deal which involves any sort of leaving unless you have actually confirmed your commitment to Leave?

Kate Hoey, in the Telegraph today, said that Jezza is as Eurosceptic as she is, albeit for different reasons; they walked through the same "No to the EU" lobbies together for years. However "he is not strong enough. He had a Parliamentary Party that was stuffed with Remainers. They knew they couldn't get rid of him as leader so they've used the EU issue to get at him. Jeremy's allowed himself to be completely stitched up, particularly by John McDonnell....McDonnell has become quite a nasty devious figure behind the scenes...After a while, Jeremy realised he was losing and he just seems to have given in".

Asked outright whether she thought Jezza actually believes in the Brexit policy he is trying to sell to voters, she laughs, "Goodness me, no. Jeremy can't stand the EU. Shall we order more tea?"

Jezza is not neutral, then. He's just Corbyn-neutral.

Whatever it takes. Promise voters the earth, cobble together any old coalition.

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Plink. Plink. Fizz. Very old friend visiting for the weekend, so I missed QT but heard the highlights through my headache on R4 this morning. And have now read the thread through, so a special case of Bear's favourite tipple is awaiting now the decision is made (however reluctantly).

Late yesterday afternoon, I read a CapX interview with Niall Ferguson, and thought his final paragraph (Brexit is like divorcing a dying spouse, in essence) rang true. But he has long held the view that further integration will be blocked by Germany, and that the EU is doomed to self-destruct.

Good afternoon, Xing, I went off reading Niall Ferguson a few years ago because I thought he'd gone up himself but that sounds intriguing so I'll pop on to the website and have a look.

Which reminds me of a comment made by someone in a focus group last week talking about Head Girl Jo. They said, "She's really up herself. Sadly, not far enough because we can still hear her voice".

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