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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...? Part deux GE 2019 special.

999 replies

placemats · 03/11/2019 17:54

New thread.

General election 12th December 2019. Results out on Friday 13th. Unlucky day for some.

So this election is unusual in that it will focus primarily on Brexit and referendums with domestic issues tagged alongside, for some parties.

OP posts:
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27
OhYouBadBadKitten · 05/11/2019 21:43

She won the leadership contest because for once the Lib Dem's have ended up with a leader that the media don't ignore. That's why members voted for her.

Hoooo · 05/11/2019 21:44

They don't ignore her because her comments are usually ridiculous/iffensive/ignorant.
She's good copy I guess...

Mistigri · 05/11/2019 21:53

I can't say that I'm a Swinson fan but a lot of the stuff being said about her on social media is vile, misogynistic and untrue. It's so omnipresent that I am not sure I trust myself to have an unbiased view about her.

Outsomnia · 05/11/2019 21:53

Just dropping by to say hi, and keep the faith!

Seems to me that it is all total blx. Promises, money galore, and a lot of total gibberish. But some of it will hit the spot for many.

Honestly I feel Brexit is dying or dead now, it is all about Johnson and his lies, and being PM now.

Wake up folks.

ListeningQuietly · 05/11/2019 21:59

Mistigri
Believe me, I really want her to be shit hot and storming
but she comes across on film as frankly unhinged
there is ambitious
and then there is grandiose napoleonic

she is not embracing and inclusive
she is falling down the "my way or the highway" trap
so sad

Mistigri · 05/11/2019 22:06

Listening, not going to argue with that mainly because I find her annoying so I don't watch her. (I find a lot of politicians annoying including some that I mostly agree with).

But the stuff said about her on social media is vile and it's just there ... all the time... making it very hard to know whether you're being influenced..

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2019 22:14

Pippa Crerar@pippacrerar
Top items on BBC News on eve of Tory campaign launch:
- Rape victim calls on Welsh Sec Alun Cairns to quit after denying knowing his former aide collapsed her trial.
- Jacob Rees-Mogg criticised by Grenfell victims for saying it would have been "common sense" to flee inferno.

Campaign being launched in Telegraph tonight

Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...?  Part deux  GE 2019 special.
Alsohuman · 05/11/2019 22:19

I wanted to like Swinson. I wanted to vote LibDem but she lost me when she categorically refused to work with Labour. More party before country. I’m no longer undecided, I’m holding my nose and voting Labour.

tobee · 05/11/2019 22:26

I see Stormzy has hit out at Mogg on Twitter. Seems spot on to me

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2019 22:29

Good god.

What fresh hell is this?

Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...?  Part deux  GE 2019 special.
RedToothBrush · 05/11/2019 22:47

Alex Wickham@alexwickham 6 days ago
Reckon Labour comfortably wins air war day one... BBC News leads on NHS, easy Corbyn victory at PMQs, Morgan / Rudd / moderates quitting on newspaper front pages, Grenfell report... plus Dispatches US trade deal stuff big online...

Alex Wickham@alexwickham 5 days ago
Air war day two probably goes to Labour as well after strangely muted start to Tory campaign. First story on the 10 is Corbyn row with Trump, second is his launch speech. 15 minutes in and still talking about Labour... reckon they’ll take that

Alex Wickham@alexwickham 15mins ago
It’s been a week since the Tories called the election... Tonight BBC News leads on remarkable Alun Cairns scandal, second story is Rees-Mogg Grenfell shocker... which also splashes front pages... pressure on Johnson launch tomorrow as Tories ask WTF they’ve been doing last 7 days

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2019 22:52

Meanwhile the LDs have got another of their famous graphs...

Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...?  Part deux  GE 2019 special.
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 05/11/2019 22:52

I cannot away with JRM -- he's a horrible little man. But I also think he is being condemned for something that he didn't actually say.

I heard the clip of him being played on the news and thought "huh? That's not what people are saying that he said" and went looking for a left-wing or centre media outlet that was likely to have given the most damning quote available to see what that was. What I found in the Guardian was:

“The tragedy came about because of the cladding leading to the fire racing up the building and then was compounded by the stay put policy.
“And it seems to me that is the tragedy of it. That the more one’s read over the weekend about the report and about the chances of people surviving, if you just ignore what you’re told and leave, you are so much safer.
“I think if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building.
“It just seems the common sense thing to do and it’s such a tragedy that that didn’t happen but I don’t think it’s anything to do with race or class.”

and that looks like what I thought I'd heard.

I think it was stupid to say anything at all if he didn't have to, and I think it was badly-phrased, and I cannot for the life of me think why he said anything about race or class, but I really don't think the wretched man was saying that the people there were stupid.

I think he was saying that human instinct (his and the interviewer's and by extension that of the people in Grenfell Tower as well) would be to try to run away from, get out of, a burning building -- and I think he's probably right about that. Staying put is somehow very counter-intuitive, even if it is what the fire-brigade say one ought to do. And we now know the fire-brigade advice did not work, because of the illegal cladding. So in this one particular case, following instinct rather than obeying orders might have saved some people.

A lot of people use "common sense" to mean things at a level below actual thinking through, instinctive stuff; or at least, that is how I often hear the phrase used.

Doesn't mean I think him less of an odious weasel, mind. Just that I don't think this was quite as bad as it's being seen as having been.

Where I am I have an arch-ERG sitting MP, and it is described as a "very safe" seat for him; but I am clinging on to the fact that in 2015 he had almost 15,000 lead over Labour, but in 2017 he had only 6,600 or so. And it is a remain area, 52% to 48% leave. I think it is worth trying really hard for Labour here -- and if the 4000 or so Liberal Democrats joined in that would be triffic. Or if enough people just moved to them from the Tories. Crossed fingers anyhow. And dialling fingers too, not to mention fill the car with fuel on the day before the polls.

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2019 23:01

Re Telegraph front page

Otto English @Otto_english
Occassional reminder that Munira Mirza - Director of Number 10 policy unit is a former member of the Trotskyist Revolutionary Communist party. The only Commies round here literally wrote the Conservative party manifesto.

Arborea · 05/11/2019 23:21

I wanted to like Swinson. I wanted to vote LibDem but she lost me when she categorically refused to work with Labour.

I'm also undecided, so no party political axe to grind. However, I thought Jo Swinson phrased her reply very carefully, so as to rule out Corbyn as PM, but not to there being a different PM (as even she must acknowledge that the best case scenario is that there are enough seats for a Lib-Lab pact).

Happy to be corrected if anyone has heard the comment in context.

Also, thanks to mathanxiety for the heads up on a possible Saudi link - I take my hat off to you for how wide and non-parochial your knowledge is!

Motheroffourdragons · 05/11/2019 23:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 05/11/2019 23:53

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

SwedishEdith · 06/11/2019 00:08

Sunder Katwala
@sundersays

Boris Johnson is launching his campaign exclusively by recycling a line from a column of his 10 years ago, about Brown/Darling having a 50p top rate.

New Statesman
@NewStatesman
New blog: Boris compares the 50p tax with Stalin's campaign against the Kulaks bit.ly/15p3nB
12:05 PM · Nov 16, 2009

Oakenbeach · 06/11/2019 00:22

However, I thought Jo Swinson phrased her reply very carefully, so as to rule out Corbyn as PM, but not to there being a different PM

Chuka Umunna did a similar thing on Radio 4 earlier. In fairness to the LDs, I think they’re in a really tricky situation here... they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. For every potential voter who’d be happy they’d support Corbyn as PM, there are probably many more potential voters who’ll be put off... The same for supporting BJ as PM.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 06/11/2019 00:34

Clare Hepworth OBE
@Hepworthclare
· 6h
Beyond belief !
Yesterday I was accused by a couple of LDs of failing to show sisterly solidarity with Swinson.
Guilty as charged,
And I also failed to show *sisterly solidarity " with:
Thatcher
May
Esther McVey
Amber Rudd
And a few others besides!
#SoHitMeWithIt

dreichwinter · 06/11/2019 00:52

Being the 3rd party leader when both of the leaders of the main party are so flawed isn't an easy place to be.
Trying to work with either would cause problems but if you aren't prepared to build coalitions what is the point of the third party?
That said I don't think Jo Swinson has the natural political abilities of Nicola Sturgeon.
I also don't think women automatically have to support women, although they should recognize the huge amount of sexism in politics.

tobee · 06/11/2019 01:13

Seeing that there have been posts referencing the Tories poor start to the campaign, I have deja vue that that was said of the Tories in 2017. Confused

And going for Corbyn because he doesn't like billionaires? Is that going to play that well for them?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2019 04:32

Comparing slightly higher taxes for the rich to Stalin's concentration camps for political / ethnic dissidents .... Confused

That's insulting to the millions Stalin tortured and murdered
And is also unhinged

mathanxiety · 06/11/2019 05:11

The people who are stupid, however, are the arrogant arseholes who think they know better than the experts - who ignore advice not because they genuinely don't know what it is, but because they think they know better...

And people who were born with a silver spoon in their mouths who have always had the inside track, the social capital, and let's face it, the heaps of money that ordinary mortals lack.

Their self belief isn't misplaced; they hold all the cards and they know it. What they lack is the humility that would tell them that the opportunities that were placed in their laps and the advantages they ran with were theirs merely by accident of birth, not because they deserved it more than others did.

Excellent post, Icantreachthepretzels.