Westminstenders: Extension or No Extension

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has sent a letter he said he never would asking for an extension.

We now wait to see what the EU come back with.

It's likely to be a technical extension. At best.

France are really not happy with the idea of an extension and Macron is flexing his muscles with the EU at the moment. He has been prepared to upset all the other EU countries as he proved with blocking progress on accession to the EU for Northern Macedonia and Albania this week. Macron is fighting his own domestic battles.

It looks as if Johnson now has a majority for a deal. What that deal will ultimately look like will be dictated by the Withdrawal Agreement Bill which sets out implementation of the Withdrawal Act.

However, with the DUP firmly offside the chances of a vote of no confidence go up. As do the chances of an election.

And its also worth pointing out that whilst the WAB is legally binding if we have an election and Johnson gets a majority, then there can always be changes made to domestic law. (implementation of the WA rather than the agreement principles of the WA agreed with the EU).

Thus any 'assurances' over workers rights and regulatory standards are only as good as long as this parliament...

I think Labour leave areas might not have been so overwhelmingly leave if the Labour Party had campaigned harder and better. Because Labour should have a head start over other parties as they are Labour areas and you'd imagine Labour voters are more likely to listen to their party before other parties.

Ghost

Fair enough that there are Labour MPs with Leave constituencies and it's tough for them.

But it is shocking they are prepared to vote this deal through, sight unseen, to fit a timetable of Johson'z choosing. Chosen, let us remember, because it benefits his election chances.

They really are selling their constituents down the river.

And it's worth remembering that Jess Phillips has a Leave-voting constituency - and she fronted with her electorate. And won re-election.

I can't help but feel that was more honourable and, ultimately, shows more care towards those she represents.

FrankGrimes
Alternatively if MPs were not threatened with deselection by Momentum for speaking out of line
they might have been better able to articulate to voters in leave areas that they are the most likely to be hit hardest by a hard Brexit
and to help them realise that its cheapskate bosses pushing wages down
not immigrants from poor countries
if a boss pays below the legal rate, it is the boss who is at fault, not the worker
They might even have been free to clarify that leaving the single market will destroy a lot of agriculture and manufacturing
and thus trash jobs and opportunities for "Left Behind" areas
But No. The JC acolytes did not allow such heresy.

Why does it matter whether he was at the March? Many prominent Labour figures were at that protest. Non story.

Well he would have, therefore, been less weak and ineffectual, Just. People don't just think he's weak and ineffectual based on nothing. They judge him to be weak and ineffectual by what he does or doesn't do!

I wish more journalists/the MSM were publicising the Populus focus groups finding: that when the focus groups are told that the "Deal" was just meant the start of Trade Negotiations, which would take years and were not already agreed, there was a deathly silence.

The public has been badly let down in having realistic expectations and outcomes explained to them

Maybe because he's the leader Ghost. Why do you think people think he should have been?

The arguments about the damage brexit will do, particularly to poorer areas are well known. People aren't listening. Positions are entrenched. There is no individual brexit saviour.

If Corbyn is such a weak leader then whatever he says won't make a difference will it? If the centrist hero Tony Blair can't win people over well its doomed isn't it?

Why does it matter whether he was at the March? Many prominent Labour figures were at that protest. Non story.

Maybe, just maybe, because he is the leader of the Labour Party (which is also the Official supposedly Opposition)?

Or are you acknowledging that he is not a leader? Let alone the Leader of the Labour Party

Corbyn was in a city badly hit by the austerity cuts. Equally as relevant to the brexit debate, but uncomfortable for Lib Dem centrists.

Ghost see my comment upthread to Just

I think Labour leave areas might not have been so overwhelmingly leave if the Labour Party had campaigned harder and better

Youre right it had nothing to do with austerity and wanting to give the Tory party a kick in the teeth

Alternatively if MPs were not threatened with deselection by Momentum for speaking out of line
they might have been better able to articulate to voters in leave areas that they are the most likely to be hit hardest by a hard Brexit

Mandatory reselection was a thing that used to happen under Labour before Blair kept the MP answerable to the constituents, under that system there would be no Hoey

Why haven't the Lib Dems cleaned up? Or Change UK?

To be fair, there’s been no general election in which to try and clean up - apart from EU elections when they had a clear lead of Labour. As for ChangeUK, they’re now just a motley crew of 4 independent MPs, who are even called that any more.

I would add to what Listening said about the forces muffling the Remain message in Labour Leave-voting areas.

It wasn't just the threat of R's-selection.

The absolute unicorn of Lexit stopped a really strong message:

Brexit is a Far Right project.

That - very simple, very clear - message could not be made and still can't be made because Labour is still pushing the ridiculous idea that this whole Far Right Counter-revolution can be turned into a fluffy Left-wing utopia.

It can't.

It never could.

But Labour - as a Party - cannot and doesn't make that point.

And we are about to see Lisa Nandy vote through this Deal.

Which, if nothing else, gives a Far Right Project a fig-leaf and a camouflage.

As a long-time Labour supporter, my heart is broken.

As a UK inhabitant, I despair.

It really is not OK - but the extent to which it is not OK, the extent to which the UK is falling to a Far Right coup is being muffled.

Our Left-wing Opposition should be shouting about this.

It should be organising mass protests.

Instead, we've had Owen Jones and the like pouring scorn on the only opposition to this there has been: the crowds of people protesting on PV marches.

Sure, there was a flurry around 'Stip the Coup' - but it should have been there from the off. And it should still be going on.

Instead, we have the heir-putative of the Labour Party preparing you vote with Johnson.

It's disgraceful.

EU timetable Issues

Verhofstadt's Brexit EP Committe today started formally analysing the WA text in detail, so they can report back to the EP at the start of the debate

The EP full debate & vote was scheduled for Thursday
but they won't approve the WA until the HoC has done so

Hence, v unlikely to get EP approval this week
BUT
EP goes into recess next week,
so from this weekend the 751 MEPs - and about 1200 staff - will have booked their holidays etc

Calling back at short notice 2,000 people from around Europe & further afield is not a trivial matter

As a LibDem member or voter Id be quite worried about the influx, seamless influx of Tory MP's into the party, they must find it a comfort being as closely aligned to the Tories as the LibDems are [shrug]

"So had the 'weak' and 'ineffectual' Corbyn campaigned for Remain, Remain would have won?^"
^
I said that a "normal" Labour leader would have swung it^

So someone like any of the past leaders, campaigning with full energy & enthuiaism,
not allowing his clique to sabotage the Labour Remain organisation wrt scheduling of events & resources

not being 'so weak' and 'ineffectual' as Corbyn
and not with a past of dodgy friends & dodgy decisions hanging over him and repelling millions of voters,
who'd normally at least listen carefully to what Labour leader was advocating on such an improtant decision.

Of course there was a lot of extra work involved with the referendum being a Tory project, people wanting to give the government a kick in the teeth, austerity etc but I still don't think Corbyn campaigned hard enough, explained why it would benefit people in those areas to vote to remain. Granted it might not have made enough of a difference. But I certainly don't think Corbyn and the leadership at the time campaigned for remain with conviction. Not surprising really.

For the record I left the Labour Party originally when Blair was leader. And before the Iraq War. Mostly because he didn't do enough for education. Even when I was a member under Blair and I didn't give him a free pass on everything.

To all the ex-Labour members: please re-join. It's only £3.
We're going to have a Leadership contest post-GE it seems.
You don't even have to go to meetings.
You can vote on-line.

^^ This

You can vote for the leader you want and I will vote for the 1 I want, isnt democracy a beautiful thing

I came of voting age after the iraq war and only joined labour under corbyn, was adamant I would never vote for them before that

almost everyone I know my age or younger says they are going to vote labour- i appreciate everyone lives in their own particular bubble (i'm up north for starters)

people I know who have previously toyed with the idea of ld or tory are telling me they are going to vote labour

Whatever polling reflects it ain't my demographic...

Calling back at short notice 2,000 people from around Europe & further afield is not a trivial matter

But offering an extension is ...

I did suggest a while back (when the Tory leadership elections were underway) that it would be a shame if Boris rushed to the EU only to find a "back in October sign" on the door.

That said, he didn't rush anywhere anyway ....

Absolutely agree Just! (Sincerely!)

Are we?