Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The Tory Party Spectacular

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2019 17:41

A row over parliamentary language and conduct and how MPs are afraid of extremists has over shadowed talk of Brexit.

Cummings has said if you don't want to leave without a deal, vote for a deal.

Yet there isn't a Johnson approved one in front of the Commons and the EU are utterly despairing of Johnson's blank non papers and his full on Trump bullshit.

Then there's the threats to the rule of law.

Apparently there are five known suggestions to bypass the Benn Act and refuse to ask for an extension.
See Twitter Thread Here

This weekend sees the start of the Tory Party Conference. With a parliamentary vote to block a recess, its rather scuppered plans for the rest of the conference. Johnson's planned speech at the conference clashes with PMQ so he may well not attend the Commons.

Expect the conference to be.... Er... Inflammatory...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
55
IrenetheQuaint · 29/09/2019 09:58

LOL at conspiring with the French. It's like we're back in the 1790s.

MockersthefeMANist · 29/09/2019 09:58

It's not a car. It's a house. And No Deal is us saying we'll go and live in a tent and everything will be fiiiine.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2019 09:59

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
Note of defensive anger from @BorisJohnson under questioning on Jennifer Arcuri - clearly didn’t declare the interest.

Sexual nature or relationship - or not -immaterial, since Code of Conduct covers family and “friends”.

“She was certainly your friend” says #Marr

OP posts:
Peregrina · 29/09/2019 10:02

I would love to see Johnson brought down by something completely unexpected.

prettybird · 29/09/2019 10:03

Using the word "surrender" to describe the Benn Bill and doubling down on its usage is so obviously from Cummings' play book.

And it will probably work because he knows how to appeal to people's basest instincts Sad

ClashCityRocker · 29/09/2019 10:05

It really doesn't matter what boris does, does it? It's all just 'lad' points.

I think the bloody express are right. That's fucking terrifying.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2019 10:06

Poster00 I may be pessimistic, but I've said I rate a 50% chance of events happening in the next 3 weeks that would justify the CCA:

riots, terrorist attacks, drones on several airports, hacking essential infrastructure .....
Maybe even strikes by certain groups of essential workers

I doubt if Tory HQ are plotting this.

However, as a Labour bod, you must have heard of the various coup plans against Harold Wilson by some rightwingers in military & intelligence
Fortunately, back then, none of them could quite bring themselves to do it

However, now we have seen the bubbling violent tendencies some ordinary squaddies have towards prominant politicians on the left or centre,
what about officers ?

The Ballymena and Bloody Sunday massacres in NI were NOT planned by the Heath govt,
but by a handful of officers who decided to copy the playbook of dirty wars in fascist S American countries
and teach the rebels a hard lesson

Then of course there are all the foreign interests who might stir the pot:

US oligarchs, big pharma, big tech
Russia
Anyone in the Middle East or any ex-colony the UK has screwed up and who still bears grudges

I'm waiting for assurances - not from thread ploppers - that all of the above is just paranoia
Anyone, please ? Hmm

chomalungma · 29/09/2019 10:06

Using the word "surrender" to describe the Benn Bill and doubling down on its usage is so obviously from Cummings' play book

Did he mention that word in the interview? I hadn't noticed Grin Sad

He has learnt from Trump.

MockersthefeMANist · 29/09/2019 10:09

We've been here before, in 1992, with "Kinnockio" and "Glenys the Menace.."

Otherwise sensible people who stood to benefit from John Smith's tax reforms were convinced that "You'd Pay £1000 more tax under Labour" applied to them personally. Labour's defence policy was, quite literally, to surrender. It said so in the Currant Bun.

And that was all the work of the now beatified Chris Patten and the Sainted John Major.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2019 10:11

Alex Wickham@alexwickham

Meanwhile an ERG MP has just sent this picture around on WhatsApp...

Westminstenders: The Tory Party Spectacular
DGRossetti · 29/09/2019 10:12

My immediate thought on a skimming of all this, is the extreme unlikelihood of British soldiers being allowed anywhere near French soil in the event of a no deal. As if.

That is so cloud cuckoo land as to make anything within pages of it also a crock of shit.

Although it does highlight that a lot of Brexiteer reportage seems to come from people imaginations.

cherin · 29/09/2019 10:14

From the Metro
Boris Johnson will demand his whole Cabinet resigns as a final attempt to get a General Election, according to a new report.
The Prime Minister is apparently prepared to collapse government if he does not manage to negotiate a Brexit deal at a summit with the EU by October 18.
Mr Johnson and his team feel Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn would struggle to form a temporary government and the UK would then have to vote in December, the Sunday Mirror reported.
If the PM quit he would also not have to sign a letter demanding a Brexit extension and that duty would instead fall on the Speaker of the House John Bercow, the report added.
Brexit could then be delayed until January 31.
A source in Westminster said: ‘We say the Speaker is constitutionally entitled to do this with Parliament’s support.’
Mr Johnson, who has repeatedly promised to leave the EU by October 31, would reportedly stay on as Conservative Party leader so he could contest a General Election at the end of the year.

Dontlickthetrolley · 29/09/2019 10:16

BCF that photo has been doing the rounds on Facebook all week.

DGRossetti · 29/09/2019 10:17

Boris Johnson says “we don’t do deals with other parties,” which begs the question of whether Cameron & Clegg was just a freaky dream #marr

He's half right - they won't do any deals before an election. They have to act the "play to win" part.

Incidentally, Mr. Marr, instead of using Cameron/Clegg as an exemplar, surely Tory/DUP would have been far more recent and relevant #tellingyouhowtodoyourfuckingjob ?

Grinchly · 29/09/2019 10:18

@RedToothBrush , could you explain what you meant about hate crime prosecutions and vexatious litigation, in context of the m o s story please?

DGRossetti · 29/09/2019 10:21

The Queen/palace angle is interesting too. It's going to split between the "we love our Queen" brigade, who will be appalled at trying to drag her into this, and the headbangers who'd serve babies on spikes if it bought them their blesses Brexit. Regardless of the actualite.

Spin it so the Queens a remainer ? Get rid of her.
Spin it so she's a leaver ? Then SCOTUK etc are all traitors and need to be eliminated.

Either way the ensuing chaos is a cover of darkness.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2019 10:21

Mockers I remember the Tory posters during the 1983 GE against Michael Foot's Labour:
A picture of a British soldier with his hands up

Labour leaders and policies have always been attacked
So btw have Tory leaders - e.g. "ditch the bitch" against MrsT - it's just that Tory media is much more prevalent & influential than Labour

BUT
the current Tory govt is totally different, far more dangerous than anything we have seen in the UK,
imo since the religion-related civil wars & persecution died out

Previous Tory leaders have not turned to populism, attacked the courts and so blatantly used authoritarian
They were never nihilist fanatics
They kept out the "bastards", instead of egging them on

I never feared Major becoming a dictator, or even tbh MrsT

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2019 10:24

DontLick and someone in the ERG copied it from FB and circulated it within their WhatsApp Hmm

Remember the furores when Corbyn RTed unpleasant anti-semites ?
Noone here said he was just forwarding something, so that doesn't matter

Apileofballyhoo · 29/09/2019 10:25

BigChoc I don't think we can be paranoid enough at the moment. Or is it paranoia when it might be true?

I might be wrong, but I think the Guardian was covering illegal deportations for a while before Windrush became a big scandal, but you know, The Guardian and accompanying eyerolls. Windrush came as no surprise to me so I think I must have seen it somewhere.

Close to tears again today. The collusion with a foreign power thing is absolutely sickening in its intent.

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2019 10:26

Check out the story of the Miranda Yardley Court case for starters Grinchley.

It should never have gone to court. It was absurd in the extreme. It was completely designed at intimating and silencing free speech. And very much went against the intention of the way the law was drafted.

There have been other cases in a similar vein but the Yardley one stands out as it was the first and because of who it was directed against.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 29/09/2019 10:26

On a plus side, one aspect of British constitutional life is that because it's so old and entrenched, the differing mechanisms have never really been in the same position to synchronise as in other countries - notably ones that have been setup "from scratch". So the chances of a corrupt political class being able to align with a corrupt civil service while a corrupt judiciary looks on and a corrupt police helps out are far smaller than elsewhere.

It's not a guarantee. But it can throw up some asymmetric roadblocks.

NoMoreMonkeysJumpingOnTheBed · 29/09/2019 10:27

Long time lurked, occasional poster. Just wanted to say thanks to RTB and others for continuing to hold rational debate and show that despite differing views it doesn't have to be an argument every time you encounter someone with a different opinion.
If the debate that I read so often on these threads were the type of conversations we could have in the UK right now, how different would the situation be!

Mainly, my post though was to say that polls, however wildly different, are only the views of the people that engage with polls in the first place.
Using polls as confirmation bias, to uphold the view you already hold, despite other polls showing different information is sadly like a giant metaphor for brexit as a whole.
We cannot blindly ignore all other points, choosing only to see what we believe as individuals, and then be upset when others state things we disagree with. The talk of a labour government being a terrible proposition for this country is mind boggling, when the current reality is that the country we all knew has long gone. The current government have damaged this country so deeply, so unerringly, so maliciously that for anyone to imply that a labour government would be worse is just a non argument.

Nobody should be allowed to do this to a country and get away with it. No one should be able to use a bumbling idiot act to kill people - be that medication being at risk (which is already happening, and no deal would cement) or inciting people to violence by using provocative language to encourage unrest.

All of this to say, I don't really take part in polls, I don't really engage in debate online, I haven't taken part in the marches, I have never followed politics as closely in my life as I have since the referendum.
That does not mean my opinion isn't valid, and when it comes to a vote at present the labour position on brexit is the one I most closely align with.
The assumption that a poll, not showing an increase in votes for the party you don't like, is accurate across the UK is frankly wrong. There are plenty of people who don't talk about politics, that follow this madness with increasing incredulity, that will not share who they will vote with and being blind to that prospect is a reflection of your own inability to see beyond your own point of view.

For what it's worth, I also was relieved that the supreme court ruled Boris had acted unlawfully, Boris believing he is above the law will not end well for any of us. He cannot, and should not, be allowed to break laws and act in his own self interests whilst holding the position of PM. If he can break laws and get away with it, why can't his friends, the people he is inciting to violence, you and I? Being blind to a person's flaws is dangerous, because one day he will turn against you too, and by that point you'll have nowhere else to go because you have blinkered yourself so drastically that you believe it would be an assault on your own self belief system to do something different.

Anyway, now I've thrown my 2 pence worth in I'll quietly retreat back to lurking and reading. Thanks again RTB, you're not alone and what you do is appreciated.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2019 10:29

DG I also wondered if the govt has received permission from France to station soldiers on their soil after No Deal Hmm

The EU have repeatedly said no negotiations, no mini-deals, if there is No Deal
Macron won't grant any concessions unless it suits France, certainly none that would anger any French voters
I don't know how they would react to British soldier, especially if BJ keeps up the hostile rhetoric

After a bad-tempered No Deal, Macron might not let any British official work at Calais

RedToothBrush · 29/09/2019 10:30

Judge in Yardley case ruled on 1st day in court that there was no case and there never was a case, and there was simply no evidence.

OP posts:
Basilpots · 29/09/2019 10:31

This Government is a horrific combination of both dangerous and incompetent led by a PM who does not appear to believe that rules apply to him whether they be moral or the actual letter of the law.

I cannot think of another period in my lifetime where this has happened.

Swipe left for the next trending thread